tsquare

Prepare yourself for disappointment.

DAL 88 Driver

Why prepare yourself for disappointment when you can just let all the naysayers here prepare you for disappointment?

newKnow

It's even worse. We are being set up to avoid disappointment of the possible outcome(s) from negotiations with the company, by being told that we should avoid the battle altogether.


Well, that's what they were telling us. There appears to be some shifting of positions, which is fine by me.

tsquare

Just being realistic bra....

Carl Spackler

Interesting. If your figures are correct, then it's even better than I thought:

2009 average annual pay = $138,000
2010 average annual pay = $143,520 (4% increase)
2011 average annual pay = $149,260 (4% increase)
2012 average annual pay = $155,230 (4% increase)

2003-2004 average annual pay = $210,000 (C2K peak)

Percentage increase needed for C2K pay restoration from conclusion of current contract = 35%. Nowhere near the 60% figure that has been thrown around here as fact.

2003-2004 annual pay of $210,000 X 12,500 pilots = $2,630,000,000
2012 annual pay of ........$155,230 X 12,500 pilots = $1,940,000,000

Total annual dollars difference for C2K pay restoration = $690,000,000.

In summary, if mesabah's figures are correct:

At the end of this current contract, we will need a 35% bump in pay on day 1 to achieve C2K pay restoration. This will be at a cost to the company of 690 million.

Not too much to ask.

Carl

Carl Spackler

See above...my overly pessimistic brudda!

Carl

DAL 88 Driver

Not so fast. Here are the actual numbers from a couple of representative aircraft:

MD-88 -

C2K rate (5/1/04): $237.37

Current contract rate: (1/1/12): $167.68

To restore the current contract 2012 rate to the C2K rate without inflation - 42% increase required.

To restore the current contract 2012 rate to the C2K rate adjusted for inflation ($286.78) - 71% increase required.
(source used to calculate inflation: Tom's Inflation Calculator)


B-767 -

C2K rate (5/1/04): $267.52

Current contract rate: (1/1/12): $188.96

To restore the current contract 2012 rate to the C2K rate without inflation - 42% increase required.

To restore the current contract 2012 rate to the C2K rate adjusted for inflation ($323.21) - 71% increase required.
(source used to calculate inflation: Tom's Inflation Calculator)

acl65pilot

Using the public figure of our 5% bump costing 90 million and our four% bump costing 75 million. (LM's statements in letters sent to the pilot group. Pull em if you want to)

90/5 =18 million per percentage point rasie.

75/4 =18.75 million per percentage point raise.

Lets be really conservative and use 18 million

Les use DAL88 figures of 42% points to get back to the dollar per hour of C2K and 71% for the restoration of rates with buying power.

42 x 18 = 756 million for rates alone

71 x 18 = 1.278 billion for restoration of buying power of c2K rates.

Now for Carl

280 744 top pay
225 744 top pay on Jan 1 2012.

Difference of 55 per hour or,

55/225 to equate to 35% points in raise

35 x 18 = 630 million, for the NWA "restoration" rates.

So what facts are we discussing Carl, and 88.

C2K rate restoration will cost about 756 million

Buying power will cost about 1.278 billion

and,
NWA restoration will be about 630 million.

Carl is correct using his numbers off of the NWA contract, but to tout that as restoration to the pilots that were under C2K is quite misleading.

BTW Carl, if you are talking about what you made not what your 777 counterpart made here in 2004 (319 an hr), then 35% is rather pragmatic

tsquare

He wants cola for all those years too... THAT ain't gonna happen.

capncrunch

That is what I don't get.

Why are people like ACL65, Alfaromeo, sailingfun, slowplay, Pineapple guy, etc fighting so hard to lower expectations? There is no real incentive to tell the rest of us that "little bites" is the way to success.

When a guy comes on here and fights for restoration, I understand. They want the best they can get. When a guy comes on here and tells us a small percentage is plenty, I begin to wonder.

What is ones motivations to shoot low and try and lower everyone elses expectation? Suspect at best.

I have been on this board almost since it's inception and over that time I gained a lot of respect for the folks on here. Unfortunately, when I see someone tow a line and argue the unarguable, I lose respect.

This thread has certainly shown who are real Delta pilots and who are management pilots.

I have given up. Those on here that lower expectations are the same folks on the inside of ALPA. It's clear to me that no matter how much we argue, they will stay the course.

The only hope I have at this point is well beyond contract 2012. It's clear where where the ALPA folks are taking that ball. The hope lies in the reality that if they choose to "take a small bite", it will actually prove to those on the fence that ALPA has run it's course and is done.

That is the best I can hope for judging from the comments of those on the inside.