Delta Pilots Association
12-04-2010, 07:15 AM
#3234
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
12-04-2010, 07:22 AM
#3235
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I'm talking about PAY restoration only. I prefer talking one point at a time since we so often talk past each other here. For PAY restoration, that will cost the company an additional 750 million per year...not 2 billion or 3.2 billion as acl claims.
Now if you say that our TOTAL CONTRACT COST is 2 billion, I can't comment on that because I've never seen the exact figure of our total contract's cost to the company.
Carl
12-04-2010, 07:26 AM
#3236
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
My question is: Why would management ban its "biggest wet dream ever" from company property?
Carl
12-04-2010, 07:57 AM
#3237
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Incorrect. We have 12,500 pilots. Divide 12,500 by your claim of 2 billion per year equals $160,000. Our aveage pay is NOT $160,000 per year. Thus your figure of 2 billion per year for pay restoration is wrong. The real number is an additional 750 million...as I have previously posted.
According to ALPA the "average" pilot last year was paid 82 hr/month on average. So, the real math is closer to:
Top 10k pilots: 10,000 x 143 x 82 x 12 = $1.407B
Bottom 2.5k pilots: 2500 x 100 x 82 x 12 = $0.246B
Total = $1.65B for pay alone. Of course, unless you plan to cut the DC, you get an additional 14% along with that for all pilots by the contract amendable date. That's another $230m, so now we're at 1.88B.
Oh, and I forgot two more 4% raises. Add in another $15m, and we're at $2.03B for pay (and DC) alone. And since according to DAL88, I think he said it takes something like a 73% raise to achieve full restoration, we're looking at rough $1.5B or twice as much as you claim.
I hope DPA's mathematician has better math skills than its biggest forum supporter.
12-04-2010, 08:00 AM
#3238
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2008
Posts: 329
Well how about this: Two catagories of pay Capt and Fo. Every five years you get a pay raise to 20 yr. or 25yrs Then capted . At twenty yr pay scale you would be essentually be making 7474/777 pay scale. Fly what you want where you want. Not be forced to fly to NRT and beyond at 60. Be rewarded pay wise for longevity like any other bussines. Right now we have a great disparity. 747 more seats then 777 but payed the same. airbus 330 more seats then 777 payed a-lot less and so on. 757 drivers get no overide when flying heavier 767's. Not to mention the cost and time saved involved for training cycles for you.
12-04-2010, 08:47 AM
#3239
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
Sailing,
I thought of this after my earlier post, but I was out snowmobiling and didn't have access to a computer or Internet.
IIRC the pilots who took the early retirement got some significant medical benefits. I don't remember what it was, but I do recall it was a good deal, and was reason alone to take the incentive.
Some guys did get a huge windfall. I'll explain, but first a little background for those who came along after we lost our DB plan.
A full retirement from Delta was equal to 60% Final Average Earnings. To get a "full" retirement the pilot had to retire at 60 years of age and have a minimum of 25 years of Delta service.
As Sailing pointed out, the 505 who took the early retirement incentive were pretty senior dudes. I don't know the demographics of the 505, but I do know that not all were originally hired by Delta. Within the 505 there were a fair number who were former Western Air Lines pilots and former Pan Am pilots.
In the case of Western I believe that merger happened in 1986. Delta acquired Pan Am in 1991. An acquired pilot would typically retire at 60, but they wouldn't have the 25 years so their retirement was calculated as a percentage. For example a Pan Am pilot retiring in 1996 would have 5 years of longevity. His retirement would be 5/25 of 60% FAE.
Similarly a Western pilot would have 10/25 of 60% FAE.
So in the case of a former Pan Am pilot who took the "early retirement", he had five years added on to his longevity. Instead of 5/25 of 60% FAE, he got 10/25 of 60% FAE. That's literally twice the retirement he would have received without the early retirement incentive.
I call that a "huge benefit", and I would think the vast majority of pilots would as well.
I thought of this after my earlier post, but I was out snowmobiling and didn't have access to a computer or Internet.
IIRC the pilots who took the early retirement got some significant medical benefits. I don't remember what it was, but I do recall it was a good deal, and was reason alone to take the incentive.
Some guys did get a huge windfall. I'll explain, but first a little background for those who came along after we lost our DB plan.
A full retirement from Delta was equal to 60% Final Average Earnings. To get a "full" retirement the pilot had to retire at 60 years of age and have a minimum of 25 years of Delta service.
As Sailing pointed out, the 505 who took the early retirement incentive were pretty senior dudes. I don't know the demographics of the 505, but I do know that not all were originally hired by Delta. Within the 505 there were a fair number who were former Western Air Lines pilots and former Pan Am pilots.
In the case of Western I believe that merger happened in 1986. Delta acquired Pan Am in 1991. An acquired pilot would typically retire at 60, but they wouldn't have the 25 years so their retirement was calculated as a percentage. For example a Pan Am pilot retiring in 1996 would have 5 years of longevity. His retirement would be 5/25 of 60% FAE.
Similarly a Western pilot would have 10/25 of 60% FAE.
So in the case of a former Pan Am pilot who took the "early retirement", he had five years added on to his longevity. Instead of 5/25 of 60% FAE, he got 10/25 of 60% FAE. That's literally twice the retirement he would have received without the early retirement incentive.
I call that a "huge benefit", and I would think the vast majority of pilots would as well.
I forgot about the Pan Am and Western pilots. I would bet however that out of the 505 well under 100 were former Pan Am or Western. Some may have been Western but the bulk of the Pan Am guys would not have made the cut with the seniority numbers they had. In addition in that time frame very few Western or Pan Am guys retired. They choose door number 3 which was to go out on disability which paid 50 percent of FAE plus whatever retirement they had from Pan Am or Western.
That disability concept is going to return big time in the next few years as pilots who don't want to work to 65 realize how much better off they will be on disability.
The medical you mentioned was that the company paid their medical to age 60. The normal contract provided medical for everyone at age 60 retirement. Their only benefit was paid medical for the time period from actual retirement to age 60.
Keep in mind the entire program was conceived to put the furloughed pilots back to work and mitigate the job losses from the major vacation changes made in the 96 contract.
12-04-2010, 09:27 AM
#3240
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired 121 pilot
Posts: 1,033
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