Gunfighter

New rules instantly create more demand for regional pilots.
Increased minimums to 1,500 hours raises the barrier to entry.
The industry may finally get entry level pilots up to a livable wage.

I'm against some of the pieces in the NPRM, but the impact to regionals is great news for the industry.

acl65pilot

Same way I felt the entire time I was at a regional. I wanted to mainline to be successful, I did not want to see the growth we saw in the last decade. It hurt everyone's career. I was also at an ALPA carrier.

Scoop

ACL,


What is the harm in a vote? Or even better a discussion on ALPA followed by a vote? ALPA needs to know - we will not tolerate any more SCOPE concessions.

I see a bunch of senior DAL Captains on this thread saying the SCOPE fight is over - RJ's are dying. To this I answer - Maybe if you are a widebody Captain the SCOPE fight is over - but if you are a narrowbody FO - stand by and get involved. 50 seaters are being retired but who flies what in between 76 and 124 seats is a very big concern of mine.

ALPA does seem to have lost touch with some of the line pilots - maybe a representative vote will shake them up. I am not saying I am definitely for throwing out ALPA, but I have no problem with discussing throwing ALPA off the property, and if that is the end result - so be it. If we decide to keep ALPA - maybe they will learn something from this whole episode and improve as an organization.

Scoop

gloopy

Yes. Not everyone, of course. But I believe each regional has within its membership and MEC (or equivalent) a very vocal and politicaly powerful (relative to itself as a company) group of pilots with that as their prime concern. We saw this play out even when 50 seaters were the dominant RJ. There have been PLENTY of "deal me an ace" moves in good times and in bad at the regional level. Make it a matter of survival and the pattern of predatory bargaining by being the lowest bidder will get even more severe.

While I'm sure you want to be "paid fairly" if you are ever going to get bigger jets, by definition you never will be paid fairly because the only reason a regional would get the flying to begin with is if they did it a lot cheaper, and pilot costs are one of the biggest variables in that particular cost/savings matrix when it comes to management. You will not only have to SIGNIFICANTLY underbid mainlines, you will also have to underbid everyone else who is underbidding mainlines to get it (you being your regional airline, not you specifically).

Even in the midst of the slaughterhouse culling of RJ's we are currently seeing, as well as the gutting of the contracts and seniority lists of once powerful regionals, there are still politically powerful pilots within every regional (even the ones being gutted the most) who honestly think they are pearched atop a position of power to defend "their" flying, all the while having a hair trigger to correct someone at mainline who wishes to defend "their" flying because to them that is not fair. Statements like "you sold that flying and now it belongs to me" are the tip of the iceberg when it comes to that mentality. While being the first to levy the charge of arrogance at a mainline group, within this contingent you see not only arrogance themselves, but political wrecklessness, dellusions of strength, the perception of lack of respect combined with nothing to lose and the grim reality of financial survival. Do not put anything past anyone with that mentality.

gloopy

Narrow body FO and CA, widebody FO and jr CA, and really anyone. Downward movement effects almost the entire list, even most of the "senior". Further gutting the bottom end, coupled with decimating the international relief FO positions and maybe even another raise in the retirement age would usher in an era of stagnation for well over a decade, then slower advancement even after that. Be very wary of a grand slam contract with a big raise percentage. If you see that TA'd, go immediately to section 1 and see how it was (most likely) paid for.

TheManager

Throwing ALPA out will definitely not happen over night. There appears to be a long process before a vote can even be taken.

Sadly, it is going to be the threat of the DPA that miiigght make DALPA/ALPA change their ways, or perhaps just gives us more lip service.

Quite frankly, I see nothing wrong with hearing what the DPA has to say and measuring it against ALPA's response to our concerns as members. At present, their actions, or lack there of, speak much louder than their words

Side note:

There is some talk of an ALPA email folks have received about items("rubbish") being left in the cockpit. What exactly is this about. The classic 727 panel easter egg hunting for smut or perhaps DPA stuff? Really. Now someone is upset? Stuff written on the chart holders of the 75's has been more than colorful over the years. I can't imagine there is heartburn over DPA if that is the basis for the said email.

acl65pilot

Scoop,
I have answered what the harm was. It is about unintended consequences going forward in our Global Industry. There is a lot of minimization of these issues and the benefits of our Association and its International Affiliations. That is the value you cannot quantify with ALPA.

As for getting some of the dead wood out of ALPA, well I believe that is well under way. I have been impressed with the dialogue the new reps throughout our system have had in their six months in office. I see this working from the bottom up. The pilots voted for change, and change does not happen over night. It is working from the bottom up as designed. That takes time, effort and patience. If I truly felt that every possible action from within had been exhausted I would probably side with the majority of the posters on this forum. I don't because I beleive there are many options to reform from within. I also beleive that there are many initiatives that are on going and we have not seen their fruits yet. Most importantly I beleive that success for this group comes from unity. There is true value in a association that courts all pilot groups from all types of carriers. It allows a dialogue between groups to occur that would not be as free flowing otherwise.

If this drive gets to the point where DPA comes out with a platform and they are more than just a website, we will have the discussion. We will by default judge the merits of their positions and structure against ALPA. ALPA has morphed many times, and I expect it to once again be successful. If it fails to change with the times, well, we know the outcome.


I am not trying to sell fear as some have indicated. I am just calling it like I see it. I generally look farther in to the future than one contract cycle to see what groundwork we need to lay today for tomorrow. That is the root of my concerns. Some dismiss it, but that does not change the fact that they are there. I like the seat at the table ALPA enjoys. I like the effect 53,000 pilots has no matter if we have not had a perfectly defined direction these last few years.

As I read these posts, pilots have issues with the people within of ALPA. The ones that indicate the structure of ALPA is the issue clearly have not read the by-laws and policy manual. I know the one who wins the perception battle wins the debate, and that is truly where most of this divide lies, in the perception. I also agree that ALPA needs to win that battle and reeducate its pilots on the meaning of unity and what it means to be a trade unionist pilot. We have miserably failed in that over the last few years. The fact is that ALPA is just starting these initiatives that have been around for some time. They have been in the works for years but are finally taking hold. I would like to give these opportunity succeed.


I am not as closed minded as you think. I am just voicing my opinion on the issue as I see it today. In fact last year I though there was a conflict of interest at national. It was suggest to me to dig a little deeper and read the policy manual and the by-laws. I did. I came away with the fact that 1) ALPA could do a better job with the perception battle, and 2) By definition we at DALPA are free to go after anything we want in our PWA because we have exclusivity with DAL . No one else has that with our carrier. For those that would state that National cannot deal with the dues loss, I say, they win if we win.
So in the end, I better educated myself and realized that I was siding with the perception not the reality. As I said perception needs to change.

acl65pilot

I never got that e-mail. I will have to submit that it is the first ALPA e-mail that I have never received.

Jack Bauer

Indeed. Yet another lost opportunity. At what point does the general membership begin to realize this has been going on for a long time and the powers that be are able to hide behind bylaws subverting the general worker bee from effecting change.

TheManager

Was it council specific perhaps? I am going off hearsay and a post on the DALPA forum that vaguely addresses it.