Delta Pilots Association
12-01-2010, 01:59 PM
#3171
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Where in any of what I posted did I state that I want to "trade your job for a huge pay raise."
Simply not true.
It is painfully obvious that this is what you are afraid of. I have no idea which group you are from. Pnwa, pdal, very junior, moderately junior...it does not matter. Fact is, the majority of pilots at the current Delta fall into a distinct demographic. This demographic saw many furloughed in the Ron Allen blood letting and of course the FM 1 & 2 group. Many at pmDelta witnessed the Bill Brown era of senior pilots carving themselves out benefits that enriched them and urinated on everyone else. Not a glorious era for DALPA, regardless, the majority understands your concerns and fears. They lived and survived. You will to if you unfortunately find yourself furloughed.
No one here wants to kill the golden goose that lays the eggs. However, we have been contributing to the care, feeding and pampering of this goose for several years now since its self induced illness aka chp 11. Now that the goose is healthy and pooping golden eggs it is time now to recognize our labors so that we can properly provide for our families and futures. When it comes to negotiating our pay and benefits, to say that we do not compare to SWA/AT because of our network is myopic at best. We definitely should compare ourselves to them and will.
Finally, we have to trust those that provide EF&A to which ever group that is representing us during negotiation. However, we must verify as well as trust and think critically. This provision of not having con papers is ridiculous....almost like ditching presidential debates before the election. Note to self and others who want to fix ALPA from within...roll that one back with a coordinated resolution effort to return thoughtful debate and pro/con presentations.
Not doing so is to allow complete control of whatever message that is put forth.
12-01-2010, 02:10 PM
#3172
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
The Manager;
I have no issue with Pro/Con debates and White Papers. I have said it before. If done correctly they are a valuable resource.
I agree with ya though, it is time to get a lot back. Depends on where we are, but we are in a better position today than a even a few months ago. Judging by our loads, that will hopefully continue.
I have no issue with Pro/Con debates and White Papers. I have said it before. If done correctly they are a valuable resource.
I agree with ya though, it is time to get a lot back. Depends on where we are, but we are in a better position today than a even a few months ago. Judging by our loads, that will hopefully continue.
12-01-2010, 02:12 PM
#3173
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
88 - $205/hr
A/3 - $210/hr
757 - $220/hr
767 - $225/hr
777 - $250/hr
747 - $100/hr
F/O - 70% blended CA pay
12-01-2010, 02:45 PM
#3174
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
12-01-2010, 04:15 PM
#3175
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Where in any of what I posted did I state that I want to "trade your job for a huge pay raise."
Simply not true.
It is painfully obvious that this is what you are afraid of. I have no idea which group you are from. Pnwa, pdal, very junior, moderately junior...it does not matter. Fact is, the majority of pilots at the current Delta fall into a distinct demographic. This demographic saw many furloughed in the Ron Allen blood letting and of course the FM 1 & 2 group. Many at pmDelta witnessed the Bill Brown era of senior pilots carving themselves out benefits that enriched them and urinated on everyone else. Not a glorious era for DALPA, regardless, the majority understands your concerns and fears. They lived and survived. You will to if you unfortunately find yourself furloughed.
No one here wants to kill the golden goose that lays the eggs. However, we have been contributing to the care, feeding and pampering of this goose for several years now since its self induced illness aka chp 11. Now that the goose is healthy and pooping golden eggs it is time now to recognize our labors so that we can properly provide for our families and futures. When it comes to negotiating our pay and benefits, to say that we do not compare to SWA/AT because of our network is myopic at best. We definitely should compare ourselves to them and will.
Finally, we have to trust those that provide EF&A to which ever group that is representing us during negotiation. However, we must verify as well as trust and think critically. This provision of not having con papers is ridiculous....almost like ditching presidential debates before the election. Note to self and others who want to fix ALPA from within...roll that one back with a coordinated resolution effort to return thoughtful debate and pro/con presentations.
Not doing so is to allow complete control of whatever message that is put forth.
Simply not true.
It is painfully obvious that this is what you are afraid of. I have no idea which group you are from. Pnwa, pdal, very junior, moderately junior...it does not matter. Fact is, the majority of pilots at the current Delta fall into a distinct demographic. This demographic saw many furloughed in the Ron Allen blood letting and of course the FM 1 & 2 group. Many at pmDelta witnessed the Bill Brown era of senior pilots carving themselves out benefits that enriched them and urinated on everyone else. Not a glorious era for DALPA, regardless, the majority understands your concerns and fears. They lived and survived. You will to if you unfortunately find yourself furloughed.
No one here wants to kill the golden goose that lays the eggs. However, we have been contributing to the care, feeding and pampering of this goose for several years now since its self induced illness aka chp 11. Now that the goose is healthy and pooping golden eggs it is time now to recognize our labors so that we can properly provide for our families and futures. When it comes to negotiating our pay and benefits, to say that we do not compare to SWA/AT because of our network is myopic at best. We definitely should compare ourselves to them and will.
Finally, we have to trust those that provide EF&A to which ever group that is representing us during negotiation. However, we must verify as well as trust and think critically. This provision of not having con papers is ridiculous....almost like ditching presidential debates before the election. Note to self and others who want to fix ALPA from within...roll that one back with a coordinated resolution effort to return thoughtful debate and pro/con presentations.
Not doing so is to allow complete control of whatever message that is put forth.
What I meant about SWA was they are not really in the same category as us. They serve 100 cities. We serve every continent but Antarctica. I don't think Richard worries if SWA follows our increased pilot contract as he does AA/UAL/USAir.
As for the golden goose, don't kid yourself. There are many people at the top of our list who would wring the gooses neck and squeeze every last drop of blood form it, leaving her an empty dead husk. They will be gone and don't care what happens to this company after they leave. It's a downside of the DC replacing their DB.
12-01-2010, 05:06 PM
#3176
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Sooo true. There are +'s and -'s to having the DC. That is one of them.
Again, probably the largest demographic is one that includes those vastly effected by furlough, scope give aways, and the down sizing of Delta. This group is becoming more and more vocal and active. Case in point....DPA and its founder.
It will be important going forward to work and make sure that the new contract is fair and equitable across all portions of the list. The era of Bill Brown style union politics and the influence of the Wide Body Mafia will mark the end of DALPA if "every last drop" of the goose is bled out leaving everyone else the husk.
TO has a couple of months at best to show what type of leader he will be and present his version of DALPA to us. Quite frankly, if it is more of the LM style, DPA becomes more of a player. On the other hand, DPA has ironically been damaged by the lack of information coming from the organizers over the past several weeks. (Sound familiar, communication problem?) Interesting start, weak follow through.
12-01-2010, 05:30 PM
#3177
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
[QUOTE=TheManager;909769]Where in any of what I posted did I state that I want to "trade your job for a huge pay raise."
Simply not true.
It is painfully obvious that this is what you are afraid of. I have no idea which group you are from. Pnwa, pdal, very junior, moderately junior...it does not matter. Fact is, the majority of pilots at the current Delta fall into a distinct demographic. This demographic saw many furloughed in the Ron Allen blood letting and of course the FM 1 & 2 group. Many at pmDelta witnessed the Bill Brown era of senior pilots carving themselves out benefits that enriched them and urinated on everyone else. Not a glorious era for DALPA, regardless, the majority understands your concerns and fears. They lived and survived. You will to if you unfortunately find yourself furloughed.
/////////
I was kind of junior for the 96 contract but I missed the senior pilots carving out benefits part. Can you tell us more about that? I recall only one thing that could be considered a benefit. 505 pilots were allowed to retire early. They got 5 points that could be applied to age or length of service. The program however was designed to put our furloughed pilots back to work which it did so I would not call it a senior only benefit. Those who took the ER got the benefit they had earned in working for Delta plus the points which in most cases was a small increase. The majority of pilots who took the program already had 25 years of service and were older then 55 so most could not use all 5 points. What were all the other benefits that enriched the senior pilots and urinated on everyone else? I assume from your tone there must have been a bunch so just name the top 3!
Simply not true.
It is painfully obvious that this is what you are afraid of. I have no idea which group you are from. Pnwa, pdal, very junior, moderately junior...it does not matter. Fact is, the majority of pilots at the current Delta fall into a distinct demographic. This demographic saw many furloughed in the Ron Allen blood letting and of course the FM 1 & 2 group. Many at pmDelta witnessed the Bill Brown era of senior pilots carving themselves out benefits that enriched them and urinated on everyone else. Not a glorious era for DALPA, regardless, the majority understands your concerns and fears. They lived and survived. You will to if you unfortunately find yourself furloughed.
/////////
I was kind of junior for the 96 contract but I missed the senior pilots carving out benefits part. Can you tell us more about that? I recall only one thing that could be considered a benefit. 505 pilots were allowed to retire early. They got 5 points that could be applied to age or length of service. The program however was designed to put our furloughed pilots back to work which it did so I would not call it a senior only benefit. Those who took the ER got the benefit they had earned in working for Delta plus the points which in most cases was a small increase. The majority of pilots who took the program already had 25 years of service and were older then 55 so most could not use all 5 points. What were all the other benefits that enriched the senior pilots and urinated on everyone else? I assume from your tone there must have been a bunch so just name the top 3!
12-01-2010, 05:37 PM
#3178
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,599
I thought SWA said they were going to keep the B-717's and they were going to pay their newly absorbed B-717 Drivers the same rate as the 737 rate. Is that true or not?
If so, maybe it's best to throw in the Jan 1, 2012 rates for our 320's, M90's, M88's, & DC-9's, since I'm fairly sure each of those airplanes carry more passengers than a B-717.
A-320 174.84
MD90 171.71
MD88 167.68
DC9-50 163.05
Once again, if so, it looks like it would take about a 30% raise for the M88 and DC9 guys & gals.
If so, maybe it's best to throw in the Jan 1, 2012 rates for our 320's, M90's, M88's, & DC-9's, since I'm fairly sure each of those airplanes carry more passengers than a B-717.
A-320 174.84
MD90 171.71
MD88 167.68
DC9-50 163.05
Once again, if so, it looks like it would take about a 30% raise for the M88 and DC9 guys & gals.
12-01-2010, 06:45 PM
#3179
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
I took your previous post that started out "me me me me me me" etc, as a critique, accusing me of selfishness. If I misconstrued your meaning, I apologize. But to call the junior guy selfish for wanting to keep his job is really beyond the pale when compared to the "Restoration".
What I meant about SWA was they are not really in the same category as us. They serve 100 cities. We serve every continent but Antarctica. I don't think Richard worries if SWA follows our increased pilot contract as he does AA/UAL/USAir.
As for the golden goose, don't kid yourself. There are many people at the top of our list who would wring the gooses neck and squeeze every last drop of blood form it, leaving her an empty dead husk. They will be gone and don't care what happens to this company after they leave. It's a downside of the DC replacing their DB.
What I meant about SWA was they are not really in the same category as us. They serve 100 cities. We serve every continent but Antarctica. I don't think Richard worries if SWA follows our increased pilot contract as he does AA/UAL/USAir.
As for the golden goose, don't kid yourself. There are many people at the top of our list who would wring the gooses neck and squeeze every last drop of blood form it, leaving her an empty dead husk. They will be gone and don't care what happens to this company after they leave. It's a downside of the DC replacing their DB.
Pretty broad brush on the senior pilots. I dont quite get that.
Most pilots that are senior (or older) just want the opportunity to feather their retirement bed at this point. If you were not around for the post 911 blood letting, I cannot put you into those shoes. If you are super junior, I doubt that there is any pilot, from super senior to mid seniority, that wants anything but for you to move up the food chain.
The blood letting was extreme and we have continued and propogated that draconian bankruptcy contract for 4 more years. You came afterward. You didn't personally experience it. The senior pilots, who you seem to have significant disdain for, did. Some are horses butts, but all FDALs lost their retirement with a very limited window to try to build one. You hired on during a bankruptcy contract and low payrates, they probably didn't.
Although you do get a vote equal to theirs, maybe rather than think how you can cancel them out of a raise, you should unite with them to try to regain what this job used to be.
Just think about it.
12-01-2010, 10:14 PM
#3180
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
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