acl65pilot

Carl;

RA made a comment that all airlines are debt own and controlled. Extrapolate that out. Furthermore, my banker buddies are very matter of fact about it.

Again, It is too early to state that restoration is too little or too much in 2012. Two quarters of profits is a start. I agree with you on one level, we should get paid what we are worth, but the second side of that, is currently the market forces (CH11) across the industry are stating that C2K wages and valuation are not what we are worth. Yes, we are worth a heck of a lot more, but given our confines of the NMB and RLA, other pilots compensation levels, etc, getting back to that in one leap will be no small feat.

As Sailing has stated, if that is the majority position I will support it fully. I too suspect that the majority position will be a lot different than what many on here think it should e. Change that opinion and support base, and the factors change.

For Clarification, I do not advocate or support a COLA adjustment for C2012. I do not even support a modest bump. We have a lot of ground to make up and where you and I differ is the means, not the ends. No one will ever state they do not want C2K rates. They just will question the likeliness of getting that in one cycle.

If anything, every pilot needs to fill this survey out.

acl65pilot

Depends. A year ago, yes. Now, long shot, Where we will be in 12 months, it is anyone's guess. I want to see what UCAL and AMR do before I tie myself to "restoration" which may be to much or it may be too little. One year with the variables currently in play is way to much time to talk ourselves in to any position. First thing that needs to be done is to pull the pilots to get the will and resolve of the greater group.

DAL 88 Driver

I think your "banker buddies" are overstating their involvement. I cannot imagine any business that would allow bankers to call the shots for how they allocate money in the operation of the business. What's the point in having executives at DAL if your "banker buddies" are running things? And how do these bankers have time to focus on their banking business if they're having to run major airlines on top of it all? Could there be an opportunity for "synergy" here?!

Do you often disagree with yourself like that over such a short span of time?

So let me see if I got this right. You agree with Sailingfun that any significant progress towards restoration would break Delta Air Lines and that more "reasonable" pay increases are all we can hope for with C2012. The APA's request for partial restoration was way too much and would be way too much for us as well. You believe the majority of our pilots see it this way too. But if you are wrong about the way the majority sees this... and the majority does indeed expect significant progress to be made toward restoration in 2012, then you "fully support" that. You think it will break Delta Air Lines, but you're okay with that as long as that's what the majority wants... even though you think it's wrong.

See, it sounds to me like you want to play both sides of this. Either you believe restoration should be our goal, or you believe it shouldn't. I don't see where you can have it both ways. Given the severity of the cuts we took, this small bites of the apple approach just doesn't get us there... ever. Maybe by the end of your career it might. But what does that do to the overall value of this career that you've worked so hard for? And for most of our pilots who only have up to 20 years left, no way. The math just doesn't work... and I think most of the argument that you, sailingfun, et al. are making is just "smoke and mirrors."

DAL 88 Driver

So, a year ago when Delta's profitability was still questionable... yes. Now that Delta is posting record profits... "long shot." Okay, got it.

hoserpilot

Someone stated this earlier....Ask for what we want. That's where we should start.


My wife wants a new BMW. She may get a certified pre-owned BMW.
My kid wants a nintendo dsi xl. He will be getting the ds-lite.


They both asked for what they wanted and management, me, found a way to give it to them.

CVG767A

Is this a typo or a Freudian slip??

TheManager

1.16 This is the B seat #.

1.59 is the A seat #.

Now, take the aircraft that you are in or will hold and enter the next chart:

Airplane Types and seating maps at delta.com

Take the multiplier for your seat or projected seat, find your aircraft seating capacity or projected a/c and multiply. That is what you are worth...Today.

Where does that multiplier come from? Not from one of the airlines in the 1113 club, which some of us here love to anchor our expectations to.

This multiplier comes from the LCC segment of the indusrty. The combined Southwest and AirTran. That is right.

A SWA Captain will make $218.48 per hour in '12. That is $1.59 per hour per seat in a 137 seat 737.

A SWA First Officer will make $152.93 per hour in '12. That is $1.16 per hour per seat in a 137 seat 737.

And thats not all folks. They have avg'd 10% profit sharing over the last ten years. (I know, apples and oranges, but what is our percentage again as we reap in the profit made possible by our sacrafices?)

Can't imagine we are going to be hearing lots of Critter jokes anymore or any jokes for that matter. We will be the joke if we don't stand up for what we are worth.

Oh, and for a little levity. All this talk about restoration, restoration and acheiving C2K that we lost again, I found it! I know where it is at!

It is hiding out with the dumptrucks here, check it out:

http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...o/abx_air.html

hoserpilot

Hmmm...typo. If Freud was involved my Android spell checker would've come up with a word that rhymes with witch. Her coffee hasnt kicked in yet and I need a place to hide.

Columbia

Now, what did (or didn't she) give you (or not give you) in return for falling short of her expectations?

Columbia

http://www.iata.org/whatwedo/Documen...ook-Sep-10.pdf


After a strong first half performance, in both air transport markets and airline cash flows, we are now expecting the airline industry worldwide to generate net profits of US$8.9 billion in 2010, up from our previous forecast of US$2.5 billion. The cyclical upturn in traffic and yields has been faster than expected, reflecting the post recession rebound and tight capacity. However, the durability of this upturn is in increasing doubt in North America and Europe. Certainly the initial impetus from business inventory building and fiscal stimulus has ended, if not gone into reverse. Growth will slow in 2011. Unfortunately this is likely to coincide with increasing capacity, as new aircraft deliveries rise and fleet utilization recovers. Load factors and yields will come under downward pressure and we expect profits to slip to US$5.3 billion

BUSINESS CONFIDENCE STRONG BUT FALLING

Strong business confidence, driven by a recovery in world trade and corporate profits, has also been a major driver of air travel markets. The sharp rebound in the number of passengers traveling on premium seats – critical for the profitability of long-haul network airlines – has been driven by business travel. Measures of business confidence are good leading indicators for changes in this travel segment. Confidence among business is still high but is falling. Air travel volume growth rates are certainly set to slow down significantly during the rest of this year, as business travel growth slows. However, so far, the outlook appears to be for a phase of slower growth rather than an absolute decline.