Delta Pilots Association
11-28-2010, 09:52 PM
#3091
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Carl;
I like how you slander me and the point. Point is that if the entry level job here at DAL is a RJ these pilots would not have to reset their seniority. This, unity and leverage is what is about.
Many of the guys I talk to are more than happy to see the jet here. Worry about the IF then worry about the how. We have a case for the current pay with B6's 195 rates but below that it will come down to a numbers game, and the pay may be below the proverbial line. If that happens, you just were the first airline to get scope back. That is a gain, period.
Also, it is not about saving my back side Carl. I am above 10% from the bottom of the list. It is about more ppl than just me. It is about all of us. It probably would not directly benefit me, but what is good for my fellow pilots is always good for me, so quit trying to slander the point.
I like how you slander me and the point. Point is that if the entry level job here at DAL is a RJ these pilots would not have to reset their seniority. This, unity and leverage is what is about.
Many of the guys I talk to are more than happy to see the jet here. Worry about the IF then worry about the how. We have a case for the current pay with B6's 195 rates but below that it will come down to a numbers game, and the pay may be below the proverbial line. If that happens, you just were the first airline to get scope back. That is a gain, period.
Also, it is not about saving my back side Carl. I am above 10% from the bottom of the list. It is about more ppl than just me. It is about all of us. It probably would not directly benefit me, but what is good for my fellow pilots is always good for me, so quit trying to slander the point.
11-29-2010, 02:51 AM
#3092
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Flying the SEC
Posts: 2,350
Why don't we change the paradigm. Instead of scoping seats, we should scope distance. Our position should be we don't care what airplane you put on a route, if it's over, say, 1.5 hours, then it's a Delta pilot. Even if the FO seats paid a market rate less than our current 1st year pay, you would have no shortage of applicants.
11-29-2010, 04:57 AM
#3093
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Have a Snickers bar and a cup of coffee, then try again.
It's of no importance to anyone whether they have virtual friends or not. I wasn't making a profound statement about Carl, only that it is amusing that the computer would say he hasn't made any friends, considering that he's not exactly walking on eggshells around here. Never did I imagine he would care, and never did I imagine anyone else would care.
What's even funnier is that you two will now be the only "friends" on APC now, and I suppose you will be the only one who cares.
It's of no importance to anyone whether they have virtual friends or not. I wasn't making a profound statement about Carl, only that it is amusing that the computer would say he hasn't made any friends, considering that he's not exactly walking on eggshells around here. Never did I imagine he would care, and never did I imagine anyone else would care.
What's even funnier is that you two will now be the only "friends" on APC now, and I suppose you will be the only one who cares.
Last edited by Sink r8; 11-29-2010 at 05:09 AM.
11-29-2010, 05:41 AM
#3094
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Satch;
It is easier to state that all Delta pilots will fly Delta and X percentage of Skyteam coded flights.
Scoping distance would be tricky. I agree that seat or weigh classifications have lead us to where we are today. What is better than this is that We fly all Delta flying and allow X, and we flying X percentage off all Skyteam Block hrs.
Scope is more than just small jets.
It is easier to state that all Delta pilots will fly Delta and X percentage of Skyteam coded flights.
Scoping distance would be tricky. I agree that seat or weigh classifications have lead us to where we are today. What is better than this is that We fly all Delta flying and allow X, and we flying X percentage off all Skyteam Block hrs.
Scope is more than just small jets.
11-29-2010, 07:25 AM
#3096
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl;
I like how you slander me and the point. Point is that if the entry level job here at DAL is a RJ these pilots would not have to reset their seniority. This, unity and leverage is what is about.
Many of the guys I talk to are more than happy to see the jet here. Worry about the IF then worry about the how. We have a case for the current pay with B6's 195 rates but below that it will come down to a numbers game, and the pay may be below the proverbial line. If that happens, you just were the first airline to get scope back. That is a gain, period.
Also, it is not about saving my back side Carl. I am above 10% from the bottom of the list. It is about more ppl than just me. It is about all of us. It probably would not directly benefit me, but what is good for my fellow pilots is always good for me, so quit trying to slander the point.
I like how you slander me and the point. Point is that if the entry level job here at DAL is a RJ these pilots would not have to reset their seniority. This, unity and leverage is what is about.
Many of the guys I talk to are more than happy to see the jet here. Worry about the IF then worry about the how. We have a case for the current pay with B6's 195 rates but below that it will come down to a numbers game, and the pay may be below the proverbial line. If that happens, you just were the first airline to get scope back. That is a gain, period.
Also, it is not about saving my back side Carl. I am above 10% from the bottom of the list. It is about more ppl than just me. It is about all of us. It probably would not directly benefit me, but what is good for my fellow pilots is always good for me, so quit trying to slander the point.
Pot...meet kettle.
Carl
11-29-2010, 09:16 AM
#3097
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: I'm in a box
Posts: 19
11-29-2010, 09:29 AM
#3098
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Carl;
We been over my statement many times. I see no reason to repeat that debate again.
You call my observations of APA slander, I call it a honest observation. I know that if I was there I would be more than frustrated. I know I would love to see those pay rates, but I would also realize the reality of where the company is, and where the talks were. With the stalemate, they retooled their leadership, and many feel that they will have an agreement early next year.
Do you think it will be 1992 wages plus inflation? I do not, I think it will be a strong step in the right direction, but not a grand slam.
We keep looking in the rear view mirror at what we had, and that is a good guide, but you must look at the entire picture and frame it. Start with profit margins, and debt, and debt service. With being debt owned many airline's hands are tied. It really is up to the banks to sign off on any expenditure, not the Board. They threaten increased interest, calling in loans and a ton of other tactics.
The best thing DAL is doing for our cause is to pay down debt and purchase jets with cash. It makes the leverage of the financial institutions less of a hurdle.
We been over my statement many times. I see no reason to repeat that debate again.
You call my observations of APA slander, I call it a honest observation. I know that if I was there I would be more than frustrated. I know I would love to see those pay rates, but I would also realize the reality of where the company is, and where the talks were. With the stalemate, they retooled their leadership, and many feel that they will have an agreement early next year.
Do you think it will be 1992 wages plus inflation? I do not, I think it will be a strong step in the right direction, but not a grand slam.
We keep looking in the rear view mirror at what we had, and that is a good guide, but you must look at the entire picture and frame it. Start with profit margins, and debt, and debt service. With being debt owned many airline's hands are tied. It really is up to the banks to sign off on any expenditure, not the Board. They threaten increased interest, calling in loans and a ton of other tactics.
The best thing DAL is doing for our cause is to pay down debt and purchase jets with cash. It makes the leverage of the financial institutions less of a hurdle.
11-29-2010, 09:39 AM
#3099
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 737 Capt
Posts: 1,166
I guess the question is do we try and negotiate a fast contract with some improvements or do we put up the fight and go for the gold ring knowing it will take longer..... For me personally I am willing to hold out and fight but alas I am only 1 vote, I guess the majority will prevail. In either case I hope our union ties annual raises to the contract that continue until the next contract is signed.
11-29-2010, 10:23 AM
#3100
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
Do you think it will be 1992 wages plus inflation? I do not, I think it will be a strong step in the right direction, but not a grand slam.
We keep looking in the rear view mirror at what we had, and that is a good guide, but you must look at the entire picture and frame it. Start with profit margins, and debt, and debt service. With being debt owned many airline's hands are tied. It really is up to the banks to sign off on any expenditure, not the Board. They threaten increased interest, calling in loans and a ton of other tactics.
The best thing DAL is doing for our cause is to pay down debt and purchase jets with cash. It makes the leverage of the financial institutions less of a hurdle.
We keep looking in the rear view mirror at what we had, and that is a good guide, but you must look at the entire picture and frame it. Start with profit margins, and debt, and debt service. With being debt owned many airline's hands are tied. It really is up to the banks to sign off on any expenditure, not the Board. They threaten increased interest, calling in loans and a ton of other tactics.
The best thing DAL is doing for our cause is to pay down debt and purchase jets with cash. It makes the leverage of the financial institutions less of a hurdle.
Sounds to me like in reality you've given up on restoration. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but I don't think it is a mindset that this pilot group wants leading us into C2012.
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