Delta Pilots Association
09-21-2010, 02:12 PM
#301
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Because that would have accomplished absolutely nothing beyond what the flow did anyway. To "recapture" flying, the number of what can be outsourced and/or seat ranges allowed to be outsourced need to be reduced. Simply adding pilots to a list when the flying they do can be outsourced away at will does nothing.
09-21-2010, 02:13 PM
#302
Moderator
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Think about it - why would Delta pilots who are so concerned about about E190s being outsourced and not even make an attempt to secure the common-type E175s that were flown by pilots who were already represented by DALPA?
I'm reading the words written here, but recent actions (or lack thereof) by Delta pilots and their elected leadership really don't support them...
I'm reading the words written here, but recent actions (or lack thereof) by Delta pilots and their elected leadership really don't support them...
09-21-2010, 02:18 PM
#303
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
What change(s)? I know we've changed a lot of faces at the LEC level, but with a few exceptions, most of what I'm seeing is just a continuation of the same path we've been on with LM.
09-21-2010, 03:15 PM
#305
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,598
We might have the same reps, but I suspect many of the problems can be traced back to the people behind the scenes that "advise" the reps and MEC leadership. Perhaps by changing unions we might get rid of them. Of course, that may not solve the problem either.
09-21-2010, 03:57 PM
#306
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Still in one
Posts: 784
Focusing on RJ growth right now is akin to focusing on the Soviet menace invading western Europe. It's over. Industry consolidation is here. After CAL/UAL get together then AMR will have to make some move. They will all face the same phenomenon as what happened at Delta. A larger carrier will need larger jets. In case you haven't noticed, RJ's are falling away like flies. They are undergoing massive consolidation now, (probably forced by their parent carriers) because the ones that don't consolidate will die. Comair is shrinking by half and we are hiring. Delta's RJ capacity shrunk 4.4% last quarter and will probably be more than that this quarter.
09-21-2010, 05:09 PM
#307
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,903
50 seaters yes, 90 seaters Scoped to 76 seaters not so much. I think with FTDT NPRM there will be further downward financial pressure to fly more seats per RJ to remain profitable. As you state no one wants that except management. Our best defense is keeping everyone under one roof, keeping the pressure on to raise RJ wages and benefits to where they are no longer the whipsaw/outsource incentive. This is best accomplished from within ALPA. Worst yet if another major leaves ALPA they WILL BE predominately representing RJ and low cost carriers (as in BOD/EVP votes) and we will have the full power and assets of ALPA, in fact, not just conjecture, working for the interests of RJ carriers. Doh!
Assuming that the NPRM is anywhere close to what was published, the regionals are looking at the abyss as far as costs are concerned. Some off the cuff figuring places it at a %20 increase in staffing, even for outfits with "mature" contracts.
Quite simply, that is death for the 50 seaters at the current price of oil.
That said, this will cause IMMENSE pressure at the mainline level to raise the seat limit. Flying a 90 seat jet around with 76 seats, with a %20 increase in staffing will make those jets untennable. Management will pull every trick out their creepy book to try to get those levels raised, because otherwise the regionals simply cannot operate profitably.
Now, more than ever, is the time to hold the line of scope. If we can keep the O2 cut off to the regionals after the NPRM, then they'll die of their own accord. But we MUST hold the line.
Management already had their wild scope ideas when we negotiated the LOAs for XJ and CPZ. You can bet they'll be back. We need people in place who understand that now is the time to put a stake in the vampire that's been sucking our flying.
Nu
09-21-2010, 05:17 PM
#308
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Still in one
Posts: 784
This.
Assuming that the NPRM is anywhere close to what was published, the regionals are looking at the abyss as far as costs are concerned. Some off the cuff figuring places it at a %20 increase in staffing, even for outfits with "mature" contracts.
Quite simply, that is death for the 50 seaters at the current price of oil.
That said, this will cause IMMENSE pressure at the mainline level to raise the seat limit. Flying a 90 seat jet around with 76 seats, with a %20 increase in staffing will make those jets untennable. Management will pull every trick out their creepy book to try to get those levels raised, because otherwise the regionals simply cannot operate profitably.
Now, more than ever, is the time to hold the line of scope. If we can keep the O2 cut off to the regionals after the NPRM, then they'll die of their own accord. But we MUST hold the line.
Management already had their wild scope ideas when we negotiated the LOAs for XJ and CPZ. You can bet they'll be back. We need people in place who understand that now is the time to put a stake in the vampire that's been sucking our flying.
Nu
Assuming that the NPRM is anywhere close to what was published, the regionals are looking at the abyss as far as costs are concerned. Some off the cuff figuring places it at a %20 increase in staffing, even for outfits with "mature" contracts.
Quite simply, that is death for the 50 seaters at the current price of oil.
That said, this will cause IMMENSE pressure at the mainline level to raise the seat limit. Flying a 90 seat jet around with 76 seats, with a %20 increase in staffing will make those jets untennable. Management will pull every trick out their creepy book to try to get those levels raised, because otherwise the regionals simply cannot operate profitably.
Now, more than ever, is the time to hold the line of scope. If we can keep the O2 cut off to the regionals after the NPRM, then they'll die of their own accord. But we MUST hold the line.
Management already had their wild scope ideas when we negotiated the LOAs for XJ and CPZ. You can bet they'll be back. We need people in place who understand that now is the time to put a stake in the vampire that's been sucking our flying.
Nu
09-21-2010, 05:25 PM
#309
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
In reality it is our flying that we have agreed to have performed off of our list. It is totally within our right to keep it off the list or take it back without any conflict of interest within ALPA and the current by-laws.
Perception is different than this, but the reality is that we are free to do what we want.
I also agree with Nu's assessment. I suspect that we will see regional staffing going from around 4.5 crews per jet to well over six crews per jet. That makes all of that flying very unprofitable unless the we give them the ability to stick 86/88 seats in these jets. You know where I stand on that one.
09-21-2010, 05:42 PM
#310
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,341
As for consolidation, the regionals are consolidating as well. And they have management's with hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank and massive pilot groups with MEC's chomping at the bit to crack that next seat range by any means necessary. You can better believe focusing on (outsourced) RJ growth is THE top priority. The only issue that may tie it is tightening up the loop holes for fireign and domestic code shares and interlining. But RJ scope is a BFD.
The only thing I ask of MY MEC is to make sure I'm paid fairly (ha, oxymoron at a regional anyways) for the aircraft that are on property. I would be very disappointed that we'd have to negotiate rates for seats 77-99 or greater... that would mean I've got a longer road at the regional prior to getting the chance to go to a major. We also need "scope protection" at the regional, because the management down here considers my $30.09/hr too much, and they can potentially take the contracted aircraft that they are flying and give them to a cheaper, purchased pilot group...
To recap... my goals for my regional MEC: fair pay for aircraft on property. Job protection for the aircraft we're assigned. This in no way seems to conflict with a major air line pilot's contract goals. If you get the flying back, then I won't have to worry about pay rates or holding on to the flying...
please please please recapture scope. Don't LET Delta sign a contract with my company for 76+ seat aircraft.
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