Carl Spackler

Bad plan. AMR is not picking at the pie, they are demanding restoration. UAL/CAL is most likely going to be shooting for UAL restoration. That leaves us. Do we really just want to "pick at the pie" if all the others shoot for restoration? And if one of them doesn't, does that mean that we shouldn't? What is it about Delta Air Lines that makes us less worthy to shoot for restoration? We're the largest airline. We're industry leaders. Let's lead.

Carl

WidgetDriver

Long time lurker, first time poster.

I want to restore payrates, workrules, and retirement. How much is it going to cost to bring the RJs in house? If we do bring them in house, what is going to stop management from making all domestic flying "RJs"?

Sorry, but let's leave the RJs alone and restore our pay. I'm not interested in flying an RJ for RJ wages.

Carl Spackler

Welcome aboard.

I think UAL/CAL have it right for the near term. They want everything over 50 seats in house...period. The regional carriers continue to fly the 50 seaters, and mainline flies anything larger.

I'm not interested in flying RJ's for RJ wages either. But if you pay me -400 pay to fly RJ's, I'll fly your RJ anywhere. I hope you get my point. Over 50 seat RJ's need to be paid at mainline rates, and most importantly, that flying done in house. Outsourcing is the slippery slope to hell, and we're getting too close as it is.

Carl

acl65pilot

This is something that needs to be looked at. I beleive that if we can get an agreement to not extend, amend, renew, or draft new DCI agreements, and let the current ones expire, the scope argument in the small jet arena will come a long way. DAL still has over 15 billion in commitment to its DCI partners, and frankly no one wants to play that costing game.

Furthermore, these "jets" that are flying for DCI may be flying past 2020, but my hunch is they will not be. The CASM/RASM ratio on those jets is quickly slipping. There will always be a need for some of them, but maybe not these jets. It is why with scope recapture you must get the seat segment and or the weight limits, not a specific jet.

Carl;
You will not have to fly those jets for "RJ" wages, but a RJ guy would love to fly those jets for whatever they pay because they have a DAL seniority number that gives them a direct path to your seat, not a 10 year career at a regional followed by a longevity reset.

With the current CBA's and PWA's staggered the way they are, AMR's Arpy is not going to agree to anything for the APA pilots until he sees what CAL does, and if he can DAL. His costs are much higher than his competitors and he will not price himself out of the market.

If we and or UCAL get pay raises that go above AMR's by a bunch then Arpy will try to match or exceed those by the traditional margin, but he has already said that he wants to wait for the rest to catch up. Sucky Sucky but the NMB seems to agree with parking them.

Carl;
It would be great for them to succeed. I would love to see them with a 63% raise tomorrow, but because of what I have said above, Arpy has been given the green light to sit on his hands.

sailingfun

Again, How about a plan? The reason is simple. There is no plan under the RLA that can deliver in one bump a restoration contract. There is also no way Delta could survive such a contract in its current form as I pointed out in another post. The fallout from the other employees would destroy the airline without even discussing what happens every single time to airlines with a large cost disadvantage. You have to drag the other airlines with you.

P.S. APA has fired the restoration crowd. They are putting all new people in to try and get a contract down in the next year. I suspect you will see a agreement. It wont be anything close to restoration but hopefully it will be a step in the right direction.

sailingfun

And again and again? Your plan?

I want restoration. I think it takes two bites to get there. My plan is get the first bite now and the second bite in 3 to 4 years. Your plan appears to be to threaten to hold your breath until you turn blue. In 2016 or 17 and still working under this contract you will finally exhale just like APA and end up getting what we could have had now. Show me a path to get to a restoration contract now and I will follow you with 100 percent support.

sailingfun

Carl, with the exception of item 3 your not giving a plan. You are giving demands. Item 3 has and is being pursued. One step in that direction was to attempt remove Fedex from the RLA. I am sure you saw how that turned out with a labor friendly Congress and NMB.

The rest of your plan would go like this. Delta, Thanks for your opener. We will get back to you in June. DALPA, JUNE!! Thats 6 months away we need to get meeting going now!. Delta, You misunderstood. We meant June of 2014. DALPA, Hey NMB Delta is being unreasonable and wont talk to us! NMB. We don't think so good day!

acl65pilot

Sailing;
I agree. We all want restoration. I also agree it takes two bites to get there. We need APA and UCALALPA to get their bites before it is our dinner time. It makes our job that much easier.

Yes, APA fired the Restoration or bust crowd and put a pragmatic (Lee like ) leader in there that understands the financial side of his company, his pilots wants, and is going to find the best way to think outside of the box, and get his pilots what they want as quickly as he can. His take is to get a nice bite, let the other pilot groups go next, and then come back and get the second bite.

You guys notice that after five years of nada, one of this guys first steps was to get ALPA services?

sailingfun

NewK's plan will accomplish exactly what APA's plan accomplished. Nothing. You will work under this contract basically forever. What I am looking for in a contract will increase Delta's costs almost 1 billion dollars a year. It would be by a large margin the largest increase ever negotiated in a airline contract. The 2001 contract at Delta raised costs about half a billion a year. If you think you going to get 2 billion out of the company and get it done in a reasonable time then give me a real plan. In fact my concept may turn out to be not workable. The company more then likely will pull the same delay tactics we have seen at AMR. At that point it becomes a war and I will vote to up the demands to full restoration. We will however work under this contract for at least 5 years beyond the amendable date before we can strike. Even then many of you have posted you don't believe we will ever be allowed to strike. I disagree with that. At some point we will be allowed to strike. It will be a long tough battle to get there but there is a process. It will be painfully slow.

newKnow

Sailing,

Comm on now. At this point, this has got to be comical to even you. You really can't see it? All I can do is picture you as Tatoo, from Fantasy Island, running around asking us for, "The Plan? The plan? The plan...."




Look for my post with the BIG picture of the bird with his head on the ground, hiding in fear. Read all of my posts on the subject.

"The Plan" is not complicated. It's not going to contain a lot of numbers. It's not going to have a lot of charts or graphs. It only involves doing what is human nature.

The Plan?

Ask for what we want. See what they say.

The chicks like a guy who can at least ask for what he wants.





Now, I've got to go take the some family to the airport, but I'll be back with a better response in a bit....


New K Now