PCL_128

Seth assisted in negotiating the most expensive pilot contracts in the history of the profession (NWA '98, UAL '00, DAL '01, etc.). To imply that he's a pushover is absurd.

But I expect nothing less from a founding member of the RJDC. For those DAL pilots who don't know, JoeMerchant was one of the "officers" of the RJDC, the Regional Jet Defense Coalition, whose goal was to stop ALPA from placing limits on RJ outsourcing. In other words, they wanted to eliminate scope and destroy our job security, all so they could take our jobs. Fortunately, ALPA fought back and the pilots who were party to the lawsuit got pennies on the dollar for their legal costs as a settlement.

So, you probably don't want to listen to Joey about ALPA.

No one said that he is the only one. He's just one of the best. I actually think Bruce York is probably the best, but outside unions can't contract for his assistance at the bargaining table, because he works for ALPA and not for its subsidiary.

The problem is that you can't just hire any professional negotiator. There are certainly plenty of professional negotiators in the world, but only a small handful know the RLA bargaining process, and an even smaller number have the experience to know how to deal with the NMB to get what we want. The truly experienced ones all work for ALPA and Ford & Harrison. F&H is the management law firm, and they don't contract with unions. So, you're left with ALPA if you want anyone with any decent amount of RLA/NMB experience.

Reroute

Sorry I hurt your feelings.

tsquare

I have been trashed by far more intelligent argument than any you made... Hurt? Hardly. Bored is more like it.

capncrunch

Folks like SWA, UPS and NetJets managed do get it done very well without ALPA. Again, the idea that ALPA has the only negotiators to get the job done right is ridiculous.

tim123

PCL is the guy a few pages back telling us how good the new mec chairman is going to be and that we are fortunate to have him.Now I am not so sure coming from him.

acl65pilot

Recall that the LUV pay rates until 2005 were well below that of all of the legacies. Their business plan and fuel hedging allowed them to go after the Legacies low hanging fruit for cheaper fares that we could offer with this hedging program. Their pay until the CH11 era paled in comparison to anyone else, and not many ppl "dreamed" of flying the 737 for SWA until that happened.

By default our pay and bennies got a hit in CH11, and they just stayed level. The cargo companies have never gotten to our previous level, and since their companies make a lot of money on a decent margin they cannot drag them in to CH11 to destroy their contracts. Remember that these places had pay that was nothing compared to ours as well.

We are looking at a very narrow snapshot of this industry's history when we state that these carriers are so much better than our. Yes, UPS and FDX will probably keep their pensions, but I would suspect that even with a moderate gain in 2012 our 777 rate will top theirs.

We do need to work on regaining a lot including work rules, but look at the whole history not just the last ten years because it give in incorrect picture of the history of these three carriers and their compensation levels.

PCL_128

UPS's independent union, the IPA, contracted with ALPA to have one of ALPA's senior professional negotiators at the table for their negotiations on the 2006 contract. They knew better than to think that they could do it themselves without experienced help. SWAPA has used ALPA's services many times throughout the years. Right now, SWAPA is contracting with the retired Director of Communications from ALPA. NetJets' independent union is working on building a relationship with ALPA, and their leaders were at the last ALPA Executive Board meeting in October.

capncrunch

This is a big piece of fluff..."Working on building a relationship". That does not mean anything. It also does not address the quality contract they got without ALPA.

Services(what services did they use???) and communications director(retired). I thought we were talking about negotiators.


This I don't know about but you are welcome to provide proof. That second statement is your made up opinion.

PCL_128

To compare the contract of a fractional jet operator to that of a major airline is ridiculous. I would never tell a pilot at NetJets that he should be an ALPA member. ALPA represents airline pilots. NetJets is not an airline. I think all fractional pilots would be best served by becoming members of a single large fractional pilots union that can provide a level of services approaching that of ALPA. If all fractionals were to pool their resources together, they would be a force to be reckoned with. Perhaps the NetJets pilots' union can become the basis for a national union for all fractional pilots.

SWAPA has used ALPA services to assist with contract negotiations in the past. I'm not sure if they did for the 2009 contract or not. I can find out if you'd like. Hell, you can find out. Just call Herndon and ask. It's not hard to get this information if you really want it.

Proof? Call him. Just call the Herndon office and ask for Art Luby. He's an Assistant Director of Representation. Brilliant attorney and negotiator.

capncrunch

I think I'm in your camp. When someone who is not a Delta pilot comes out of the woodwork to tell us how it is, it's a little suspect.