newKnow

I know, TOGA. The DC-9 can be a lot of work, especially from the right seat. But, is it a POS? Not to me. There have been plenty of times where I was glad that I was in a DC-9 over let's say an Airbus.

newKnow

Which to me means someone might have screwed up and the company wanted to standardize the usage. I went through training in 2001 and that was the biggest part of the checkout: "Make sure you hit the tail!"

After the ride was over, the examiner pulled out a printout of our flight path to show me how many times we "hit it" and I thought he was going to say we got it too much. To my surprise, he said great job and that was pretty much the extent of the de-brief. As I said, they were big on anti-ice procedures back then.

TOGA LK

It comes down to LGA, loaded, hot day and that engine shells at a hair under V1. Steel brakes that warp under normal use or carbon brakes that will bring you to a dead stop in 1,600 feet. If you make the go decision it's 2.5 to 3:1 weight/power ratio on the bus, 6:1 on the 9. I'll take the FADEC over limping along with a 40 year old JT8D, managing remaining fate by +- 10 kts. I really appreciated knowing that a good aircraft can get you away from the ground really quick when SHTF.

Throw in adverse weather, I'll take a Bus with an auto brake designed to keep you lined up with the runway over a design whereby the reverse thrust blankets the rudder and hardly effective nose wheel steering.

Predictive wind sheer.

Autoland

Substantially better SA in a dark and/or mountainous area.

Quiet cockpit, less fatigue do to heat and wind noise.

Printer, allows for better cockpit presentation of critical information, less chance of confusion and/or a mixup.

Managed navigation vs VOR to VOR mixed with fatigue and leg #5.

Passenger comfort; I'm quite sure the last five or six rows on the 9 create a hearing hazard.

Frequent downline mechanicals, number one reason I get called on reserve.

It was ahead of it's time in the 60's when Boeing was still building three man cockpits. On the flip side of the coin, a lot changes in 40 years and by today's standards, I'd rather see 320s, 737s and 757s.

In defense of Airbus, when was the last time you saw one with wrinkles in the skin? Exactly. And considering how hard Sully slammed that 320 into the water, it too is tough as nails. 320: Nearly a dead stick ditch in NYC, zero fatalities.

caseyd

Yer all freaking nuts... Check out the fiasco that is US Airline Pilots Association. Been on the property almost three years. Organizers promised at industry standard contract in three months. Didn't happen. Promised a DOH list...didn't happen. Been sued..lost. Then overturned, not on merits but because the DOH list has not been implemented yet. Just wait n see there.

APA just hired ALPA to help negotiate. Why? Cause that's what they do and they are the best. Their economic and financial analysis department (EFA) is without peer in the airline business. If management says a pilot proposal cost $2 million and EFA says it costs $1 million guess what, it cost $1 million and EVERYBODY knows it. Clowns at usapa have a one man band trying to out duel Phoenix. It's a joke.

So all you hairy chested "just say no" types might want to cool your jets a while. APA has been in mediation for four years and the mediator just recessed them till some time in 2011! USAPA has been trying to negotiate a merged contract for 2 and a half years with no results. DAL/NWA just got a good deal. Ditto for Spirit and AirTran. Cool your jets. THINK. And watch how it works out elsewhere.

TOGA LK

Welcome Casey. You are welcome to get a clue and contribute at any time. You'll find that most folks on this forum are into restoring the profession as well as the compensation. It's been ten years and I think most are tired of thinking and watching their expectations slide into blue collar territory, below in some regards.

freightguy

Hehe..most of the time I am sitting in an airbus munching away food from the tray table thinking.... glad I am not on the 9. But 9 is a nice plane too...just wish the dang thing had tray tables up-front...and FMS and GPS and LNAV and VNAV and auto-throttles and ...hehe

Splash

Well said! That many or those pilots with no improvements work for airlines with independent unions (USAPA, APA) that broke off from ALPA, should make you take heed.

caseyd

What did I write that compelled the comment about restoring the profession and compensation? I mean who's not?

What will help more than anything is a profitable industry. Last decade of decline had more to do with seeing de-regulation finally shake out and both managements and labor figuring it out. Or so we all hope. If we start buying hundreds of new airplanes and throwing thousands of additional seats on presently profitable segments then I will retract.

Point is friend, it's complicated...all of it. And when somebody in the crew room gives you a simple solution I suggest you run, not walk, away. THINK about consequences. THINK about what happens next. And when someone tries to explain the value of the loose association that is our national union just listen. There is no duplicating the resources we have available when we pool monies. And nobody on Mass. Ave. tells an MEC what to do. Local leadership ALWAYS decides what happens at the local level. And THINK.

Carl Spackler

Yup. Those large increases at SWA, UPS and NetJets could never have happened without ALPA. If those guys were independent, they wouldn't have stood a chance.

Carl

Carl Spackler

You're not. You just know better than to come right out and say it. Instead you speak management's line as to how complex the world is.

Ah yes...complicated. Our company will pay down billions in debt and still make billions in net profit, while we work under BK wages for AT LEAST 26 more months.

Other independent unions would disagree with you. But it is important for your argument that you ignore their success.

If you REALLY believe that, then you have no union experience at all. ALPA national wields an incredibly big stick. Nearly 3,000 previous posts describe it better than I. You should go back and read before you post such nonsense.

Carl