Originally Posted by LandGreen2

Here is a sample post from FLIGHTINFO "Reasons why Airtran guys are going to LUV SWA"

Good thread to read, and I am SURE ALPA does not want you to know all the goodies SWA has in their PWA compared to ours. Just a few below:



Ty,

Please take another look friend. You seem to have grossly underestimated our total compensation package. There is NO place on our senioirty list where a AAI pilot will be worse off. As long as the deal goes forward your pilots simply cannot lose!

I'm a 7 year FO who doesn't pick up much and I'm at 145 as of November 5th. I have peers who pull in considerably more.




210k is a 37% increase from 153k. However, the average SWA guy flies 110 trips per month, which is $245k. That is a 60% increase from AAI 12-year captain pay.

AAI FO pay is more in the +80% range. As a 5th year SWA FO, I make 12-year AAI captain pay (according to this website). I'm a commuter and NOT a varsity league bidder.

Don't forget the hugely reduced medical benefits, 1% union dues reduction, AMA overnights, ....




Some of the major ones have been covered; the ones below are not so obvious but total up to some nice beenies in the minds of some.

* For military reservists/guard; positive relationships between flt ops, union and pilots in managing time off; SWA doesn't forget you when you are deployed...make sure you request the SWA/SWAPA Military Handbook for details
* Hotel Committee that is run by pilots/FAs and not corporate bean counters; great hotels managed by our own with an ear toward crew members; grievances are pretty non-existent in regards to hotel issues
* Free internet at nearly all hotels; discounts on food/drink totals 10-50% in hotels
* Multiple tax-free plans to take advantage of, income dependent; Roth & regular 401K, excess plans, profit sharing (5.8% last 5 yrs, 7.19% last 10 yrs), 9.3% company (less than AAI but higher SWA income totals results in more money)
* Highly rated 401K fund selections (see my cut and past from an article rating SWAPA 401K Retirement Funds as being #4 rated by BrightScope)
* Free Morningstar resources available for planning purposes;
* Targeted Retirement Fund mixing of funds; 95% of investments can be managed within a Schwab Personal Choice Retirement Account (PCRA) allowing the pilot to choose any other investment options other than SWAPA chosen funds (manage your own risk); can be stocks, EFTs, funds, etc.
* 2 weeks of vacation 1-5 yrs, 3 weeks 6-10 yrs, 4 weeks 11-18 yrs, 5 weeks 19 yrs or more seniority;
* floating vacations can be sold back at 26.5 TFP and beginning by the time the deal is done, one can fly during your vacation for additional money if you choose to
* No PBS; won't come to pass either with the current efficiency of operations
* avg duty day of 8:35; avg flt time of just over 6 hrs;
* avg 1 "scheduled" aircraft swap in a 3 day; slightly over 1 hr ground time avg
* avg legs per day is 3 with avg flt time per leg of 2 hrs
* avg turn time on normal flights of around 30 minutes
* All of the above thanks to the multiple rigs built into the system to encourage more efficient/more flight time while on trips
* several family insurance options with one that is no cost to the pilot (yes there are reasonable benefits attached to it; I used it last year and good for those without small children
* Great FOs; lots of different types of background
* More FOs on the NC/MA than CAs, bodes well for making sure the junior pilots perspectives are being presented
* Healthy SWAPA reserve fund and sound fiscal oversight in place with a great Budget Director
* Great benefit staff at SWAPA that have helped many pilots who have become disabled or need questions answered quickly
* Ditto for contract admin....avg 10+ yrs of experience in dealing with contract issues by these folks
* Training center is not adversarial; new PC checkride format is positive change promoting better learning; questions on orals come from single study source...no surprises
* Vacation trading is now available on line just like regular trips
* Biding for open time now permits 1.5 bids allowing competitive bidding against those bidding straight time pay (come to SWAPA briefing on 30 Nov to learn more)
* Last phase of open time bidding (1Q11) will allow more automated bids for short notice call outs so less JA; however JA does pay 2.0 now versus 1.5 before
* Jetway trades with pilots legal to fly with just a phone call to scheduling...very nice on those last flights to domicile from your home!!!
* Gary Kelly as CEO!
* Multiple communication methods from the union to the membership (weekly burst emails, twice a month union newspaper, monthly call in conference call to get questions answered from the leadership, good comm during elections)
* Annual budget is presented to membership with general descriptions; voted on/approved by membership
* All BoD and officers are elected by membership; no appointments of execs by BoD; 2 reps per base (8)
* 1% dues
* Wright Amendment goes away mid-'13 making travel to Love (training center) much easier and great new route opportunities (limited to 16 gates but perfect place for -800 combined with 717s to outlying TX cities once change occurs)
* CAs do walkarounds (....just making sure the levity light is on)
* Pilots can have "standing bids" so no longer "I forgot to bid" will result in reserve hell
* More time at home for more pay (but you knew that!
* Never fired a pilot for interpreting valid write ups as "job action" activities

Could go on with more items but many of the obvious ones have been stated already....looking forward to resolving issues and returning value to the customers, shareholders and employees.

Originally Posted by tsquare

To sum it all up... "The SWAPA pilots want to staple your ass and why you will love it."

Originally Posted by tsquare

To sum it all up... "The SWAPA pilots want to staple your ass and why you will love it."

Originally Posted by capncrunch

So true.

Aside from that, I think the example he and the NetJets guy put down still resonate.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

One think I notice that is never mentioned here is the extra money Delta pilots were paid from the claim and merger stock. Add that into the hourly rates and Delta does not look so bad. I did not include note money because it was compensation for retirement.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

Netjets does not work under the RLA. Huge difference!
SWA's pay is a direct piggyback off legacy contracts. They were saved from the cuts that the rest of us took by 5 billion dollars in fuel hedges and a strong balance sheet. Over the course of my career I have made far more then my counterparts at SW and worked far fewer days with a much higher quality of life. The chapter 11 contracts are all going to be up for renegotiation in the next few years. There will be a restoration of the balance and I would bet money over the next 20 years the overall compensation will be better then SW at the legacy carriers.
One think I notice that is never mentioned here is the extra money Delta pilots were paid from the claim and merger stock. Add that into the hourly rates and Delta does not look so bad. I did not include note money because it was compensation for retirement.

Originally Posted by TheManager

Sailing. I get it. It's Skittle skies and rainbows everywhere in your world. What is that...the Good Ship Lollipop that you are sailingfun on?

1. NetJets....They operate in the same airspace performing the same tasks as we do. Except, we are worth less because of the RLA? Yes that changes how negotiations are conducted, but not the resolve or lack of it to stand up for what ones worth. RLA is a cheap skirt to hide behind.

2. SWA Fuel Hedges. Why the h&!! should we be the ATM machine they go to if someone blows the fuel hedges out of their rear end. There is no moral hazard for messing that up if you can just take the loss or perceived loss out of your employees. We should be a fixed cost on that balance sheet.

3. In your day, perhaps you are right about that comparison to your past career and that of a SWA pilot. Not true anymore nor will it be going forward by a long shot. As you edge close to retirement, realize that the low cost carrier pilot flying a 737 is making more that you will with better benefits as a senior DAL pilot. And that SWA pilot .... his retirement is going to make yours look down right pedestrian. Especially if he got in the the great stock option years which I suspect an equivilent hire to you over there has.

4. 20 years? That long to reach parity with a low cost carrier or to restore to what we had? Either way. It boils down to this:

The DAL pilot has to stand for something, or they will fall for anything.

Goes for ALPA to. They are already teetering.

5. This is one of the most myopic and extraordinary statements I have heard in a long time!

"Take the money from the claim and the merger stock and add it to the Delta payrate and it doesn't look so bad."

Wow. That $$ was compenstaion for you agreeing to dump your pension. That $$ was pennies on the dollar to what your pension was worth. That claim would have been significantly smaller if Uncle Doug had not put a bid on for Delta and run up the price of the bonds. That $$ was essentially a small bribe. It's like the sticker or lollipop my kids get when they get a shot at the pediatricians.

To even entertain the idea of adding it to the current rates to conjure up one that doesn't look too bad to you is breath taking in its child like fantasy. If it helps you to feel better about what happened when we voted in the cuts we took in chp. 11, great. Some of us here want to fix what happened and at least stop living under a chp. 11 contract that saves them billions a year. We are worth more than that. If you are content with your "not so bad payrates," then maybe it is time to sit on your hands or shut up and color.

Originally Posted by sailingfun

There will be a restoration of the balance and I would bet money over the next 20 years the overall compensation will be better then SW at the legacy carriers.