Delta Pilots Association
11-14-2010, 01:27 PM
#2551
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I agree with you 88. I'll admit, I'm on the fence, but keep the cart before horse. The DPA vote doesn't decertify ALPA, just gives us a right to vote whether or not to decertify ALPA. I'm willing to see the DPA be given the opportunity to show us what they can do AND be ready to take over on day 1. I think the pilot group as a whole is smart enough to weigh the pros and cons and come up with the best choice. Either way, the voice of all of the DAL pilots have a chance to be heard and their will be done. Either way, the DAL pilots win.
Carl
11-14-2010, 01:35 PM
#2552
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I agree with most of what you have said however management loves a divided group. If it comes to a vote in a time period where we should be handing are contract opener to the company its going to cost every pilot a bunch of money. Both the pilot and company will over time form their expectations and wants and needs in the contract. The company expectations of how they will do will go way up if the union is in the middle of a decert effort. Its managments biggest wet dream!!!!!! Management personal and pilots were the drivers in the last effort to vote ALPA off the property. They never got enough cards but there was no doubt who the man behind the curtain was in that attempt.
I guarantee that if DPA is voted in, world peace and prosperity will stand forever. I guarantee it. On the other hand, keeping ALPA on the property is management's biggest wet dream!!!!!!!!!! I guarantee it. Management wants to keep ALPA as their main communications arm...I guarantee it.
Man that was fun. No thought, no facts, just pure emotional rhetoric.
Good times!
Carl
11-14-2010, 01:42 PM
#2554
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
That's pretty funny, and sad at the same time. Funny, because the more things change the more they remain the same. The EAL pilot group's anger needs to be directed in the same place the USAir East pilot's anger --->> the MIRROR.
Sad, because these little battles against ALPA national do nothing but harm MY ability to get a truly restorative contract.
A little history lesson for you: ALPA National told the EAL pilots to get their butts back in the seats after Bush refused to permit the Blue Ribbon Commission regarding maintenance fraud, effectively killing any chance of a successful strike. The locals refused, thinking they knew best. The rest is history.
Snap forward to USAPA. ALPA National stated binding arbitration was binding, and there was nothing illegal or fraudulent about the arbitrator's decision. Maybe it was fair, maybe not; as fairness is always in the eye of the beholder. But there was nothing that could/should be done about it. Now, the Easties are forever mired in a no-win, no-contract, bottom of the industry situation that will never change, because management LOVES a split group, and knows this can drag on virtually forever.
Gee, does that sound familiar?
Sad, because these little battles against ALPA national do nothing but harm MY ability to get a truly restorative contract.
A little history lesson for you: ALPA National told the EAL pilots to get their butts back in the seats after Bush refused to permit the Blue Ribbon Commission regarding maintenance fraud, effectively killing any chance of a successful strike. The locals refused, thinking they knew best. The rest is history.
Snap forward to USAPA. ALPA National stated binding arbitration was binding, and there was nothing illegal or fraudulent about the arbitrator's decision. Maybe it was fair, maybe not; as fairness is always in the eye of the beholder. But there was nothing that could/should be done about it. Now, the Easties are forever mired in a no-win, no-contract, bottom of the industry situation that will never change, because management LOVES a split group, and knows this can drag on virtually forever.
Gee, does that sound familiar?
Carl
11-14-2010, 01:45 PM
#2555
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
You left at least one "very" out of "very skeptical". I've no trust and no confidence in ALPA at this point, nor have I for a long time.
11-14-2010, 01:52 PM
#2556
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Carl;
I like how you keep projecting success for DPA. Talk about wild dreams of taking Seth away, etc. Guy has worked for ALPA for a long time. Ya ever think he may get unity and the need for it, and tell you to take a flying leap?
It has nothing to do with managing your expectations Carl, it is the realities of negotiating in section six under the RLA. If you want all that you say you want, you know the path of least resistance is unity in the current form. If I were you I would want my money as quickly as possible and to do that you need to get unified asap. Best way to do that is under the current structure, not by tearing one organization down in hopes the new one can deliver.
Hope, that is all DPA is now is hope. You are trying to sell hope without a road map on how to get there. I think I have seen that a few times in history.
I like how you keep projecting success for DPA. Talk about wild dreams of taking Seth away, etc. Guy has worked for ALPA for a long time. Ya ever think he may get unity and the need for it, and tell you to take a flying leap?
It has nothing to do with managing your expectations Carl, it is the realities of negotiating in section six under the RLA. If you want all that you say you want, you know the path of least resistance is unity in the current form. If I were you I would want my money as quickly as possible and to do that you need to get unified asap. Best way to do that is under the current structure, not by tearing one organization down in hopes the new one can deliver.
Hope, that is all DPA is now is hope. You are trying to sell hope without a road map on how to get there. I think I have seen that a few times in history.
11-14-2010, 02:27 PM
#2558
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Really interesting rebuttal. First of all let me say that I am not necessarily a DPA supporter. I have no idea who they are, what they promise, nor what they think they can deliver. What is so very fascinating to me is the fervor with which you and others are defending the status quo which is alpa. There is clear dissatisfaction with alpa within the rank and file pilots, and even you have to recognize that. If you deny it, then you must be flying with many others who happen to share your vision... which is why I find your position interesting. But... to answer your rebuttal, in case you haven't noticed, alpa is not the only national union out there. There are times where I would rather have the support of the Teamsters than alpa. But that's just me. Your way of seeing alpa as the only answer is a very dangerous thing.. I know you don't see that.. but it is. It is like having a run only offense. If you don't know how to pass now and then, the defense will stack the box, and kill you eventually. Alpa has become a one trick pony. It is bloated. It is deaf, and it is blind to the needs of it's membership. It has many many problems that cannot be fixed from within like you and ACL suggest. Even if it could, those that would effect those changes will never make it to the inner circle. So continue your delusion my friend... I will continue whether to send in a card and work for the decertification of your precious association.
11-14-2010, 02:38 PM
#2559
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
He's a lawyer bra.. he will go wherever he can get the biggest paycheck. You are REALLY naive if you believe otherwise.
11-14-2010, 02:48 PM
#2560
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
If he did tell DPA to go take a flying leap, I'm not one of those who thinks Seth holds the entire universe's knowledge and expertise about negotiating under the RLA.
I want a secure future for me and my profession. Retroactive pay is the tool used to gain back the time value of money lost during negotiations where management drags their feet. We used it for decades. Of course, that was before folks like you that never wanted to risk anything.
Carl
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