satchip

Do you actually think that the Marketing guys leave money on the table when they set fares for routes? Do you really believe that if they could increase fares by $8 they don't because of some altruistic motivation?

$8 bucks higher could put you on the second or third page of expedia.com. Kinda like taxes, an increase in fares may cause a reduction in revenue. Without the competition following the increase, the pioneer would be left hanging.

Here's hoping that Ucal gets a new contract with significant progress before we start negotiating.

DAL 88 Driver

Again... not our problem! If we were talking raises from our previous (pre-BK era) living standard, then I could buy your argument. But the bean counters need to figure out how to make this right. As has been shown... when you put it into perspective in the grand scheme of things, appropriate restoration for us is a very small drop in a very large bucket. If they haven't been planning for this, then they had their heads buried in the sand (or have been naive by listening too much to LM). And speaking of LM, it's absolutely inexcusable to me that the people who are supposed to be representing us make excuses for why this can't/shouldn't happen!

satchip

It most certainly is our problem, at least my problem. How do you think those "bean counters" would make up the loss of profit margin? They would lay off enough people from the bottom to bring the costs back in line. Won't affect you though, captain.

I don't want to get paid the most, I want to get paid the longest!

DAL 88 Driver

Pure conjecture on your part. And in true DALPA supporter fashion, presented as if it were fact.

tsquare

OK.. how WOULD they make up for that lost revenue?

slowplay

If management could raise prices $8 per ticket today, why wouldn't they do it?

They would. In a heartbeat. Not to line our pockets, but to line theirs.

The fact that they haven't means the competitive market we operate in can't support the increase (obviously unless the majority of carriers/asm's increase as well). We don't live in a vacuum.

Your math may or may not be correct, I don't know. But your logic is fallacious. I want more probably more than you do, as I have a shorter time left here. Your "just raise fares" argument doesn't hold water.

satchip

And that answer shows a complete lack of critical thought. Typical DPA supporter fashion, just wish it and it becomes fact.

DAL 88 Driver

A large airline is a complex business with a lot of moving parts. How do they make up for oil going up $10, $20, $50 a barrel? How do they make up for starting up airlines with green sperm painted all over the aircraft and then deciding to scrap the whole thing? What about Breezeway Boarding trip rugs? How much did those cost? How much does it cost to rebrand/logo the entire airline? How much does it cost to buy regional airlines for billions of dollars and then sell them for a fraction of what was paid? How much do weather systems impacting our hubs cost each year? How do they make up for a particularly bad luck year with weather impacting multiple hubs multiple times?

The point is that there are frequently massive swings in cost to an airline. Ticket pricing is an extremely complex thing that also has wild swings. Are you telling me there's not an opportunity anywhere in there to reorder and/or allocate things so that pilots could be compensated in line with the way we were compensated for decades? Is $5 bucks a ticket... whether it's recouped through increased ticket prices, reductions in costs in other areas, or a combination of many different things... really that significant? What kinds of synergies and efficiencies does a company gain by treating its employees like a valuable asset instead of strictly a cost item? (Hint: Many successful business experts understand this concept.)

My experience has been that, when a company identifies something that is a priority to them, they find a way to make it happen. I guess as long as DALPA continues to downplay the importance of it and make it sound like we're just fine, management will continue to keep it off their list of priorities.

NWA320pilot

OK I guess I came across wrong..... I agree that ticket pricing is paramount to tickets sales thus the way I worded things looks like I meant to raise prices.

What I was trying to point out was that our hourly rates are a very minute part of operating an airline. How much fuel does it take to offset the $1.60 per hour? What about lease payments, hedges, poor fuel planning, etc.? I see more dollars wasted in one flight due to the fuel planning on the 747 than I make in 1 month. In the grand scheme of things this dollar figure is nothing.

TheManager

They don't need to raise the Base Fare. That, of course would put them on the last page of the all important online fare search websites.

One option is too raise the fees that are collected at then point of purchase much like tax and facility fees.

Knowing that you enjoy pass travel benefits and most likely don't purchase airline tickets, recall the last rental car, hotel room or cruise purchase you made. They all have added on fees for such things as energy consumption, stadiums, facility fees, docking and port charges, & etc.

Why not a modest fee to supplement pilot wages. A fee that is per passenger and less than what they spend per day parking their car at the airport. A fee that is less than what they will spend in line at Starbucks when they transition the terminal. (The hardest part of that is giving it a name that is benign and p.c. I say leave that to the corporate comm. and marketing folks.)

We are living in the 21st century in a connected world that has dramatically reshaped all sorts of business and economics over the past 20 years. We have been deregulated now since the 1970's. Why then do we still cling to the same pay models that were formed when airline travel started?

We need to change and adapt as well.

ALPA could go along way in restoring confidence in themselves if they could solve this problem and offer a solution. I am sure their competion will also be looking at this.