Delta Pilots Association
11-10-2010, 07:38 AM
#2401
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 374
I think what we are seeing here is a realization of a shift in how pilots will be represented moving forward. Look at ALPA. Around 38 airlines represented and only 2 are major airlines. Delta and United. Fedex is also ALPA but can easily be seen as being in a different industry.
Looking at my crystal ball I see ALPA representing ONLY regional airlines. And here's the thing....THATS OK. The regional airlines need someone to represent them, and help increase their quality of life.
The majors, now SWA, USAIR, UAL, DAL, AMR will likely all have independent unions that use CAPA to have a voice and lobby in Washington.
Once DAL leaves ALPA you will see the new UAL bolt about a second afterwards as they find themselves funding, as well as surrounded by, regionals.
My DPA card is in for a number of reasons. And I used to be an ALPA rep actually!!
1. I'm not going to fund airlines that actively try and steal my flying.
2. I'm not going to fund a union that has no ballz and cannot take a position on anything.
3. I'm not going to fund Airtran pilots trying to get a better position within SWA only to leave ALPA and join SWAPA. I pay for this sh@t EVERY MONTH OUT OF MYYYYYY PAYCHECK.........(sorry AT guys)
Guys seriously.....quit choking the sick horse with pills and just put a bullet in it.
fly2002
Looking at my crystal ball I see ALPA representing ONLY regional airlines. And here's the thing....THATS OK. The regional airlines need someone to represent them, and help increase their quality of life.
The majors, now SWA, USAIR, UAL, DAL, AMR will likely all have independent unions that use CAPA to have a voice and lobby in Washington.
Once DAL leaves ALPA you will see the new UAL bolt about a second afterwards as they find themselves funding, as well as surrounded by, regionals.
My DPA card is in for a number of reasons. And I used to be an ALPA rep actually!!
1. I'm not going to fund airlines that actively try and steal my flying.
2. I'm not going to fund a union that has no ballz and cannot take a position on anything.
3. I'm not going to fund Airtran pilots trying to get a better position within SWA only to leave ALPA and join SWAPA. I pay for this sh@t EVERY MONTH OUT OF MYYYYYY PAYCHECK.........(sorry AT guys)
Guys seriously.....quit choking the sick horse with pills and just put a bullet in it.
fly2002
11-10-2010, 08:18 AM
#2402
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
The same issues still currently exist at independent unions and their scope is much more restrictive. I would anticipate you will bring up bankruptcy. Let me save you a post. I would then respond as to why the airlines with better scope managed to stay out of bankruptcy and the ones with weak scope entered into it. Weak scope makes a weak airline. I said it before, ALPA is more worried about ALPA, not our airline or its pilots, just about membership. As an independent union, we would manage our own airline's affairs free from ALPA tutelage and an ALPA agenda. An agenda which usually runs counter to the Delta Pilot's wants and needs. Look no further than the last few months.
That would make sense if the DAL pilots had actually voted anything down over the last 10+ years. If they were voting things down and then the MEC was coming back with TA's that were passed by 50.01% you may have a point, but the reality is that most things pass by a good margin on their first try.
FYP;
I am not stating things are alright, I am just stating that the issue is what the pilots here and UAL et al have decided they want.
AMR skirted CH11 by the skin of their teeth. If they did go in to 1113C they would not have a pension and may have caved on scope as well. CAL too.
LCC, UAUA, and DAL all went in and got hammered. Prior to that it was about pay and FAE. No longer. One of the unintended consequences for the company of 1113C.
11-10-2010, 09:03 AM
#2403
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
The DAL pilots never vote anything down because DALPA uses the good ole tried and true method of scare tactics when it comes down to MEMRAT. "Hey boys... you know if you vote this down, we will have to start over.. replace the negotiators and you might not get as good a deal". It works, I got to hand it to the association. How about they allow a pro-con paper like we did in the old days so that the voters can be little more educated without all the hyperbole? The new guys better come in guns a-blazin' that's all I can say... no more scare tactics. Basta Ya! (Enough already)
11-10-2010, 09:12 AM
#2404
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
You can keep doing it if you want acl, but nobody is buying it anymore. People know what facts are, and what your opinions are.
Carl
11-10-2010, 09:22 AM
#2405
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Scope was sold because airline managements (Delta included) said they could not operate and would shut down without the same competitive advantages that AMR got through AmericanEagle. If we said that we'll strike, they said go ahead...it will just shut the company down a little quicker than would happen anyway without scope changes. Those scare tactics won the day, and a majority of senior AND junior pilots voted for them. To describe it the way you've done is nothing more than an ignorant slander to the pilots who were faced with these horrible choices. You don't have a CLUE what that was like.
Carl
11-10-2010, 09:25 AM
#2406
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I think what we are seeing here is a realization of a shift in how pilots will be represented moving forward. Look at ALPA. Around 38 airlines represented and only 2 are major airlines. Delta and United. Fedex is also ALPA but can easily be seen as being in a different industry.
Looking at my crystal ball I see ALPA representing ONLY regional airlines. And here's the thing....THATS OK. The regional airlines need someone to represent them, and help increase their quality of life.
The majors, now SWA, USAIR, UAL, DAL, AMR will likely all have independent unions that use CAPA to have a voice and lobby in Washington.
Once DAL leaves ALPA you will see the new UAL bolt about a second afterwards as they find themselves funding, as well as surrounded by, regionals.
My DPA card is in for a number of reasons. And I used to be an ALPA rep actually!!
1. I'm not going to fund airlines that actively try and steal my flying.
2. I'm not going to fund a union that has no ballz and cannot take a position on anything.
3. I'm not going to fund Airtran pilots trying to get a better position within SWA only to leave ALPA and join SWAPA. I pay for this sh@t EVERY MONTH OUT OF MYYYYYY PAYCHECK.........(sorry AT guys)
Guys seriously.....quit choking the sick horse with pills and just put a bullet in it.
fly2002
Looking at my crystal ball I see ALPA representing ONLY regional airlines. And here's the thing....THATS OK. The regional airlines need someone to represent them, and help increase their quality of life.
The majors, now SWA, USAIR, UAL, DAL, AMR will likely all have independent unions that use CAPA to have a voice and lobby in Washington.
Once DAL leaves ALPA you will see the new UAL bolt about a second afterwards as they find themselves funding, as well as surrounded by, regionals.
My DPA card is in for a number of reasons. And I used to be an ALPA rep actually!!
1. I'm not going to fund airlines that actively try and steal my flying.
2. I'm not going to fund a union that has no ballz and cannot take a position on anything.
3. I'm not going to fund Airtran pilots trying to get a better position within SWA only to leave ALPA and join SWAPA. I pay for this sh@t EVERY MONTH OUT OF MYYYYYY PAYCHECK.........(sorry AT guys)
Guys seriously.....quit choking the sick horse with pills and just put a bullet in it.
fly2002
This!!!!!!!!
Carl
11-10-2010, 09:42 AM
#2407
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
The only "fact" I can see is that DALPA has made more concrete gains in the past 3 years than any other union, ALPA, independent or non-union.
It is impossible to win an argument on the internet.
11-10-2010, 09:44 AM
#2408
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: right for a long, long time
Posts: 2,642
That is NOT why scope sales happened. You would know that if you were here.
Scope was sold because airline managements (Delta included) said they could not operate and would shut down without the same competitive advantages that AMR got through AmericanEagle. If we said that we'll strike, they said go ahead...it will just shut the company down a little quicker than would happen anyway without scope changes. Those scare tactics won the day, and a majority of senior AND junior pilots voted for them. To describe it the way you've done is nothing more than an ignorant slander to the pilots who were faced with these horrible choices. You don't have a CLUE what that was like.
Carl
Scope was sold because airline managements (Delta included) said they could not operate and would shut down without the same competitive advantages that AMR got through AmericanEagle. If we said that we'll strike, they said go ahead...it will just shut the company down a little quicker than would happen anyway without scope changes. Those scare tactics won the day, and a majority of senior AND junior pilots voted for them. To describe it the way you've done is nothing more than an ignorant slander to the pilots who were faced with these horrible choices. You don't have a CLUE what that was like.
Carl
11-10-2010, 09:45 AM
#2409
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 374
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