acl65pilot

It is good will to work with them T, but you know that. I am sure they are paying a good bit.

Carl Spackler

Our Section 6 opener will begin in about 7 months. Many of the ALPA apologists here have stated that we should wait until then and we will see a strong statement on scope. And that DALPA can't do it now because it would be tipping their hand to management. I think it's BS, but we'll see.

My bet is that if DPA is not voted in by then, we will see absolutely nothing about scope until the beginning of Section 6. And then scope will just be included in a laundry list of wishes. The same list that DALPA will be aruguing TO US..."what are you willing to give up for it?"

If everyone is disgusted with that position in 7 more months and demand a DPA, then the DALPA/ALPA argument will be: "Geez guys, you should have thought about this earlier...you can't change horses now that we've already begun negotiations."

Carl

acl65pilot

Carl;
No one argues scope is not important. Not even those "evil" MEC guys

What people are disagreeing on is the means to the end.

From what I gather you are saying we should demand all flying back now? Well there is about 16 billion left on those contracts and that is a lot of money to buy them out of.

Some propose what UALALPA position which is recapture at the end of a contract. Like I said, it is the means that we differ on.

Carl Spackler

Exactly, but you weren't supposed to notice that. You were supposed to infer that a DPA would be prohibited from hiring these same services. Or the services used by SWAPA, or IPA, or...

If DPA is voted in, I would use my vote to push for an interview process of professional negotiators such as the ALPA subsidiary, SWAPA's team, IPA's team, and the firms used by successful foreign carriers like British Airways and Lufthansa. I would choose and pay for the firm our union thought was the best.

Carl

Carl Spackler

That is certainly the case with the APA, which is one of the reasons this is such a good idea. We ALPA members on the other hand, have it much more difficult. ALL our local money comes from our fraction that ALPA national returns to us. If our local needs to not comport with the agenda of national, they have many tools on their part to get us to "understand the big picture." The biggest tool of all, is the power of the purse string.

If APA does not like the advice they're being given, they simply get to say: "Thanks for your input. Your bill will be paid. Now please leave."

Carl

Carl Spackler

Then you're not paying attention. There are definitely people out there that do not think scope restoration is worth any negotiating capital. You're in denial if you don't know that. A current candidate for MEC Chairman (Bill K.) is just one of those people. So not only are you wrong about this statement, but there's a good chance that a person with this belief will be the new DALPA MEC Chairman. Then your work of changing ALPA from within can begin.

No they're not. Some are not even agreeing that scope is something to be fought for. The new ALPA President is a man who states that RJ's are good for Delta Air Lines.

Never have I said this. The UAL/CAL position on this would be a great one in my opinion. Thus far, DALPA's position on it is TOTAL SILENCE! Total silence does not give me confidence that our MEC gets it.

Carl

groundedpilot

I'm diligently trying to make my selections for the upcoming ALPA elections and am having trouble finding the guiding philosophies that drive our MEC/LEC. In my 18 years as an ALPA member, several on inactive status but back active now, I can think of no other election/negotiation cycle as important as the present.

Having lurked on APC for some time now I feel compelled to at least ask the question. Is there a reason why ALPA/DALPA has not issued a clearly worded position paper detailing our stance on issues such as duty time regulations, scope to include outsourcing of flying through joint ventures and the application of new and intrusive airport security measures.

The only response to any of the aforementioned points that I could find was a paper, located under the public comment section of the new duty time legislation, dating back to 2009 regarding flight duty times which seemed purposefully vague.

I have not drawn any conclusions regarding the DPA at this time but can tell you that ALPA/DALPA will have to make a strong and united case throughout this election cycle to win my support. I have looked thoroughly for answers to these question but have not found satisfaction. Can anyone briefly explain why a decisive position has yet to be taken and if it has where can I find this information.

Carl Spackler

What you are asking for is certainly not unreasonable. The fact that you even have to ask this question highlights one of the many failings of ALPA/DALPA.

Carl

acl65pilot

I think that has been answered. ALPA and DALPA members are part of the ARC, and due to that fact they cannot comment until the proposed regulations are final.

Rather B Fishin

I would imagine it's like the criticism Pres. Obama got when he wanted to open up communication with Kim Jong and Ahmadinejad..... you'd legitimize the opposition/regime........