Delta Pilots Association
11-04-2010, 11:52 AM
#2271
On Reserve
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: I'm in a box
Posts: 19
Roughly said that outsourcing of Delta flying specifically began in the 1986 contract and allowed all 70 seat or less flying to be done by other pilots but was a consequence of deregulation. Basically one sentence on scope. Continued through 1991 adding some language but still allowing 70 seat planes to be flown outside Delta. 1996 contract Section One now expanded from earlier one sentence to thirteen pages. Specific language allowing RJ-85 and BAe-146 smurf jets but limiting weights. 2000 contract was unable to remove the 70 seat provision since it had been in since 1986 with no change. Language allows increase of RJ-70's tied to growth up to 75 with weight limitation. Mentions Sunshine Operation and Song impacting contract. Section one now thirty-five pages and RJ-50's not limited at all and goes on through LOA 46 (2004), 51 (2006 in BK), and 19 (2008). 46 going to 150 70's; 51 going to 200 70's and 30 76's; and 19 going to a combination of 255 70/76's based on mainline fleet numbers. Combined number 70/76 at 224 in 2009, basically unchanged since bankruptcy (or bunkruptcy if you're in the it-didn't-have-to-happen camp) Some discussion about jobs after that, fleet mix etc... I don't have the second article as it was in the ROAR and I moved bases.
11-04-2010, 02:19 PM
#2272
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,040
T, the President's pay is based on what he can hold with his system seniority number at his on airline, or the averageof the top paying positions of 5 ALPA airlines, he's the only national officer who is on permanent leave from his airline and since he is therefore not able to have an airline funded DB or DC plan he gets to accrue a DB while he's president, besides that he gets a place to stay while he's away from home, per diem while he's away from home and a car to drive to work. Wow, the outrage of it all. I mean line pilots would never get per diem, or a place to stay, or a ride to and from the airport when their away from home.
Spin it any way you want, but it has been significantly reduced.
Spin it any way you want, but it has been significantly reduced.
11-04-2010, 03:05 PM
#2273
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,325
his housing allowance is greater than my salary. I have a problem with that. His car allowance is not too far off from my monthly mortgage. I have a problem with that. Delta does not pay for my crash pad or crash pad car. I do not get per diem while sitting reserve in my crash pad. His benefits are excessive. He makes a lot more money as president of alpa than a line pilot. there's no debating that.
+1.....................
11-04-2010, 03:44 PM
#2274
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
ALPA Supports the Pilot Training and Qualification Requirements of H.R. 5900
ALPA has received several inquiries recently concerning the Association’s position on flight-experience requirements for future first officers. Some of the media reports on this topic have been incomplete and/or inaccurate, which has undoubtedly contributed to confusion and misunderstanding.
This subject was considered at length by the FAA’s First Officer Qualifications Aviation Rulemaking Committee (FOQ ARC). Members of ALPA’s Air Safety Committee with expertise in pilot training, plus the director of ALPA’s Engineering & Air Safety department, served on the FOQ ARC earlier this year. As an ARC member, ALPA is prohibited from making public comments on the committee’s recommendations until the FAA publishes its final report. Therefore, ALPA is not yet authorized to specifically comment on the content of the media reports. However, we can explain some of the history behind the ARC and point to reference documents that clarify ALPA’s position on this important subject.
The tasking of the FOQ ARC was focused on sections 216 and 217 of H.R. 5900, which was signed into law on August 1, 2010, as Public Law (PL) 111-216. In summary, the law directed FAA to increase the minimum training and qualification requirements for pilots to be hired at a future date by FAR Part 121 airlines, and set a minimum flight-time threshold of 1,500 flight hours for that purpose. ALPA strongly and publicly voiced support for the 1,500-hour minimum flight experience provision in the law. However, the law also gives the FAA administrator the ability to give flight-hour credit toward the 1,500-hour requirement for “specific academic training courses [that] will enhance safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight hours requirement.” The FOQ ARC was tasked, therefore, with defining the credit to be given toward flight hours on the basis of specific academic classroom coursework completed by the pilot.
The final FOQ ARC report was delivered to the FAA in September 2010; the agency has not yet made that report public. The FAA will consider the FOQ ARC recommendations in producing a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) that is consistent with PL 111-216. In accordance with that law, the ARC report recommends new training and qualification standards for FAR Part 121 pilots and establishes 1,500 flight hours as the minimum flight-hour-experience threshold for pilots before they can be hired by a FAR 121 airline, but it does give the administrator the ability to allow some credits toward flight hours on the basis of specific types of academic training.
ALPA strongly supports the work of the FOQ ARC because its recommendations, if adopted, will create a much higher level of safety than was required by Section 216 of the law. If the FAA adopts the recommendations of the FOQ ARC, new pilots will be much better trained and have considerably more experience than is required by current regulations. We believe that the law’s flight-hour credit provision is entirely justified on the basis of quality of experience and not merely quantity of experience. The military, which gives its pilots extensive aviation-related academic and leadership training as part of the flight training program, has proven that pilots with many fewer hours than 1,500 are fully capable of operating high-speed, very complex aircraft in demanding airspace.
Prior to the creation of the FOQ ARC, ALPA went on record in April 2010 with recommendations to the FAA about this subject in comments to the Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (ANPRM) on “New Pilot Certification Requirements for Air Carrier Operations.” These comments, and the ALPA white paper (September 2009) entitled “Producing a Professional Airline Pilot,” provide much more detail about ALPA’s views on how to significantly upgrade first officer qualifications.
We expect that the final ARC report will be made public by the FAA in the near future. ALPA will release a summary of the report, along with ALPA’s position on the report and its recommendations, at that time.
ALPA has received several inquiries recently concerning the Association’s position on flight-experience requirements for future first officers. Some of the media reports on this topic have been incomplete and/or inaccurate, which has undoubtedly contributed to confusion and misunderstanding.
This subject was considered at length by the FAA’s First Officer Qualifications Aviation Rulemaking Committee (FOQ ARC). Members of ALPA’s Air Safety Committee with expertise in pilot training, plus the director of ALPA’s Engineering & Air Safety department, served on the FOQ ARC earlier this year. As an ARC member, ALPA is prohibited from making public comments on the committee’s recommendations until the FAA publishes its final report. Therefore, ALPA is not yet authorized to specifically comment on the content of the media reports. However, we can explain some of the history behind the ARC and point to reference documents that clarify ALPA’s position on this important subject.
The tasking of the FOQ ARC was focused on sections 216 and 217 of H.R. 5900, which was signed into law on August 1, 2010, as Public Law (PL) 111-216. In summary, the law directed FAA to increase the minimum training and qualification requirements for pilots to be hired at a future date by FAR Part 121 airlines, and set a minimum flight-time threshold of 1,500 flight hours for that purpose. ALPA strongly and publicly voiced support for the 1,500-hour minimum flight experience provision in the law. However, the law also gives the FAA administrator the ability to give flight-hour credit toward the 1,500-hour requirement for “specific academic training courses [that] will enhance safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight hours requirement.” The FOQ ARC was tasked, therefore, with defining the credit to be given toward flight hours on the basis of specific academic classroom coursework completed by the pilot.
The final FOQ ARC report was delivered to the FAA in September 2010; the agency has not yet made that report public. The FAA will consider the FOQ ARC recommendations in producing a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) that is consistent with PL 111-216. In accordance with that law, the ARC report recommends new training and qualification standards for FAR Part 121 pilots and establishes 1,500 flight hours as the minimum flight-hour-experience threshold for pilots before they can be hired by a FAR 121 airline, but it does give the administrator the ability to allow some credits toward flight hours on the basis of specific types of academic training.
ALPA strongly supports the work of the FOQ ARC because its recommendations, if adopted, will create a much higher level of safety than was required by Section 216 of the law. If the FAA adopts the recommendations of the FOQ ARC, new pilots will be much better trained and have considerably more experience than is required by current regulations. We believe that the law’s flight-hour credit provision is entirely justified on the basis of quality of experience and not merely quantity of experience. The military, which gives its pilots extensive aviation-related academic and leadership training as part of the flight training program, has proven that pilots with many fewer hours than 1,500 are fully capable of operating high-speed, very complex aircraft in demanding airspace.
Prior to the creation of the FOQ ARC, ALPA went on record in April 2010 with recommendations to the FAA about this subject in comments to the Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (ANPRM) on “New Pilot Certification Requirements for Air Carrier Operations.” These comments, and the ALPA white paper (September 2009) entitled “Producing a Professional Airline Pilot,” provide much more detail about ALPA’s views on how to significantly upgrade first officer qualifications.
We expect that the final ARC report will be made public by the FAA in the near future. ALPA will release a summary of the report, along with ALPA’s position on the report and its recommendations, at that time.
11-04-2010, 04:49 PM
#2275
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
T, the President's pay is based on what he can hold with his system seniority number at his on airline, or the averageof the top paying positions of 5 ALPA airlines, he's the only national officer who is on permanent leave from his airline and since he is therefore not able to have an airline funded DB or DC plan he gets to accrue a DB while he's president, besides that he gets a place to stay while he's away from home, per diem while he's away from home and a car to drive to work. Wow, the outrage of it all. I mean line pilots would never get per diem, or a place to stay, or a ride to and from the airport when their away from home.
Spin it any way you want, but it has been significantly reduced.
Spin it any way you want, but it has been significantly reduced.
And it is you that is spinning it there Sparky. You are in damage control mode because if you really opened your eyes, you would see that I am not the only one that finds this unacceptable, and like the AFA, you cannot believe that anybody would actually say NO to you and your little group. You better wake up, because a LOT of guys out on the line are starting to say no... And just FYI, because you have apparently been asleep for a few years, but his airline does not have a DB retirement, so he is now getting yet something else that the proletariat does not. As I said earlier, I will be happy to drive one of his cars up to DC so he can have something to drive while he is there. Or he can buy a beater...
But I guess our "leadership" is just like our federal government. They have reached the promised land, and they have not to live in the same world that the rest of us do. Must be nice.
11-04-2010, 05:00 PM
#2276
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
ALPA Supports the Pilot Training and Qualification Requirements of H.R. 5900
ALPA has received several inquiries recently concerning the Association’s position on flight-experience requirements for future first officers. Some of the media reports on this topic have been incomplete and/or inaccurate, which has undoubtedly contributed to confusion and misunderstanding.
This subject was considered at length by the FAA’s First Officer Qualifications Aviation Rulemaking Committee (FOQ ARC). Members of ALPA’s Air Safety Committee with expertise in pilot training, plus the director of ALPA’s Engineering & Air Safety department, served on the FOQ ARC earlier this year. As an ARC member, ALPA is prohibited from making public comments on the committee’s recommendations until the FAA publishes its final report. Therefore, ALPA is not yet authorized to specifically comment on the content of the media reports. However, we can explain some of the history behind the ARC and point to reference documents that clarify ALPA’s position on this important subject.
The tasking of the FOQ ARC was focused on sections 216 and 217 of H.R. 5900, which was signed into law on August 1, 2010, as Public Law (PL) 111-216. In summary, the law directed FAA to increase the minimum training and qualification requirements for pilots to be hired at a future date by FAR Part 121 airlines, and set a minimum flight-time threshold of 1,500 flight hours for that purpose. ALPA strongly and publicly voiced support for the 1,500-hour minimum flight experience provision in the law. However, the law also gives the FAA administrator the ability to give flight-hour credit toward the 1,500-hour requirement for “specific academic training courses [that] will enhance safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight hours requirement.” The FOQ ARC was tasked, therefore, with defining the credit to be given toward flight hours on the basis of specific academic classroom coursework completed by the pilot.
The final FOQ ARC report was delivered to the FAA in September 2010; the agency has not yet made that report public. The FAA will consider the FOQ ARC recommendations in producing a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) that is consistent with PL 111-216. In accordance with that law, the ARC report recommends new training and qualification standards for FAR Part 121 pilots and establishes 1,500 flight hours as the minimum flight-hour-experience threshold for pilots before they can be hired by a FAR 121 airline, but it does give the administrator the ability to allow some credits toward flight hours on the basis of specific types of academic training.
ALPA strongly supports the work of the FOQ ARC because its recommendations, if adopted, will create a much higher level of safety than was required by Section 216 of the law. If the FAA adopts the recommendations of the FOQ ARC, new pilots will be much better trained and have considerably more experience than is required by current regulations. We believe that the law’s flight-hour credit provision is entirely justified on the basis of quality of experience and not merely quantity of experience. The military, which gives its pilots extensive aviation-related academic and leadership training as part of the flight training program, has proven that pilots with many fewer hours than 1,500 are fully capable of operating high-speed, very complex aircraft in demanding airspace.
Prior to the creation of the FOQ ARC, ALPA went on record in April 2010 with recommendations to the FAA about this subject in comments to the Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (ANPRM) on “New Pilot Certification Requirements for Air Carrier Operations.” These comments, and the ALPA white paper (September 2009) entitled “Producing a Professional Airline Pilot,” provide much more detail about ALPA’s views on how to significantly upgrade first officer qualifications.
We expect that the final ARC report will be made public by the FAA in the near future. ALPA will release a summary of the report, along with ALPA’s position on the report and its recommendations, at that time.
ALPA has received several inquiries recently concerning the Association’s position on flight-experience requirements for future first officers. Some of the media reports on this topic have been incomplete and/or inaccurate, which has undoubtedly contributed to confusion and misunderstanding.
This subject was considered at length by the FAA’s First Officer Qualifications Aviation Rulemaking Committee (FOQ ARC). Members of ALPA’s Air Safety Committee with expertise in pilot training, plus the director of ALPA’s Engineering & Air Safety department, served on the FOQ ARC earlier this year. As an ARC member, ALPA is prohibited from making public comments on the committee’s recommendations until the FAA publishes its final report. Therefore, ALPA is not yet authorized to specifically comment on the content of the media reports. However, we can explain some of the history behind the ARC and point to reference documents that clarify ALPA’s position on this important subject.
The tasking of the FOQ ARC was focused on sections 216 and 217 of H.R. 5900, which was signed into law on August 1, 2010, as Public Law (PL) 111-216. In summary, the law directed FAA to increase the minimum training and qualification requirements for pilots to be hired at a future date by FAR Part 121 airlines, and set a minimum flight-time threshold of 1,500 flight hours for that purpose. ALPA strongly and publicly voiced support for the 1,500-hour minimum flight experience provision in the law. However, the law also gives the FAA administrator the ability to give flight-hour credit toward the 1,500-hour requirement for “specific academic training courses [that] will enhance safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight hours requirement.” The FOQ ARC was tasked, therefore, with defining the credit to be given toward flight hours on the basis of specific academic classroom coursework completed by the pilot.
The final FOQ ARC report was delivered to the FAA in September 2010; the agency has not yet made that report public. The FAA will consider the FOQ ARC recommendations in producing a Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (NPRM) that is consistent with PL 111-216. In accordance with that law, the ARC report recommends new training and qualification standards for FAR Part 121 pilots and establishes 1,500 flight hours as the minimum flight-hour-experience threshold for pilots before they can be hired by a FAR 121 airline, but it does give the administrator the ability to allow some credits toward flight hours on the basis of specific types of academic training.
ALPA strongly supports the work of the FOQ ARC because its recommendations, if adopted, will create a much higher level of safety than was required by Section 216 of the law. If the FAA adopts the recommendations of the FOQ ARC, new pilots will be much better trained and have considerably more experience than is required by current regulations. We believe that the law’s flight-hour credit provision is entirely justified on the basis of quality of experience and not merely quantity of experience. The military, which gives its pilots extensive aviation-related academic and leadership training as part of the flight training program, has proven that pilots with many fewer hours than 1,500 are fully capable of operating high-speed, very complex aircraft in demanding airspace.
Prior to the creation of the FOQ ARC, ALPA went on record in April 2010 with recommendations to the FAA about this subject in comments to the Advance Notice of Proposed Rulemaking (ANPRM) on “New Pilot Certification Requirements for Air Carrier Operations.” These comments, and the ALPA white paper (September 2009) entitled “Producing a Professional Airline Pilot,” provide much more detail about ALPA’s views on how to significantly upgrade first officer qualifications.
We expect that the final ARC report will be made public by the FAA in the near future. ALPA will release a summary of the report, along with ALPA’s position on the report and its recommendations, at that time.
Carl
11-04-2010, 05:57 PM
#2279
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Position: MD88 A
Posts: 51
As you can see by to number of my posts I don't write much. I read all of yours and the email today from ALPA regarding min flight time requirements.
I've had enough.
I sent a letter to DPA and an email to LM. I told Lee that I'm am not unhappy with DALPA but feel that ALPA does not represent me very well, please fix it or when / if the vote comes I'll be voting against ALPA.
I guess I should not expect a direct response.
I've had enough.
I sent a letter to DPA and an email to LM. I told Lee that I'm am not unhappy with DALPA but feel that ALPA does not represent me very well, please fix it or when / if the vote comes I'll be voting against ALPA.
I guess I should not expect a direct response.
11-04-2010, 06:52 PM
#2280
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
But earlier you posted with great fanfare that: ALPA Supports the Pilot Training and Qualification Requirements of H.R. 5900. And that statement mentions 1,500 hours often throughout. But as you now correctly state, ALPA is supporting something that currently HAS NO HOURLY REQUIREMENTS AT ALL!
This is such a classic example of ALPA communications. They try extremely hard to make you think they're on your side, when in reality they say nothing at all. This statement is completely meaningless as it states nothing except it supports HR 5900. They mention 1,500 hours numerous times, but 1,500 hours is NOT in this proposal.
Carl
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