TheManager

OK. Give me your plan then. Let's start simple. Let's take the issue du jour- screening and the TSA.

How would ACL effect a change with how ALPA National is now handling the CrewPass/back scatter/milimeter wave/hard core pat down issue.

As I understand it, their position is just cooperate and endure.

Having had the big C, and the one most pilots are diagnosed with, why would I or anyone subject themslves to more radiation that " only penetrates a few layers of your dermis?"

We are trusted to provide a safe and professional passage from point A to B.

What would you do to "fix what we have now" in regards to ALPA's current position??

acl65pilot

The best labor lawyers money can buy for;
-FAA action

-ADOA (DOT Drug Test) action; chain of custody. (search case history and see who the lawyers are that constantly fight these issues, ALPA)

-Section six

-other labor related issues.

Whether or not you want to admit it, being in a professional association with these "regional" carriers means that we resolve the differences internally and not at the table or court house with our corporation. We deal with them as an association. They will also not go after your flying while you are the big man on campus. Leave and the mice will play, and play for your cheese.

The best labor professional negotiators that in effect can only be used in conjunction with ALPA. Yes, professional negotiators.

Bar none the best medium for pilots wrt to:
Security
Safety
Accident Investigation
Legislative pressure
Medical
International Issues, which are to big to list and effectively cover them.
Human factors research.
Legal
Strategic Planning

That is off the top of my head and I am sure there are some I am missing.

You may argue that money can buy you all of this, and, yes I agree you can buy an outsourced service for much of this, but we all know what quality outsourcing can provide. When a person or in this case a pilot is working for the betterment of not just someone else for a paycheck but for their own QOL and chosen career field, the work is going to be of greater quality than that of someone that collects a fee for a service. Simply put insourced labor provides better quality.

The idea of buying these services is so anti-trade unionism. We are preaching taking back scope on one hand and then outsourcing on the other. To me that sounds like talking out both sides of our mouth.

Also many have issues with the pay at National but how can professionals that are part of a union, with any shred of creditability go tell another unionized workforce that they can get their services though outsourcing. You are effectively making managements argument for them. If you want to change their pay, tell em why, but blowing up an organization to get the labor cheaper seems to have been done a lot over the last decade.(See your angst) In many instances these will be the same ppl an independent will hire to perform the work. How do you think these people are going to feel towards you? What will their work quality be towards those that hurt their families?

So you say you will not hire them, I say good luck finding lawyers, negotiators etc that are currently of ALPA's employ, have the breadth of experience to adequately defend a group like DPA. That type of experience will cost a lot more than the 200K salaries we are now paying them.


But the most important thing you get is Unity. Inclusiveness is what makes an organization like ALPA stronger. The NKS strike proved exactly what this unity can do. CAPA is a loose organization of independent pilot associations that gets together on some issues, and not on some. ALPA National takes 44,000 pilots and their representatives and forms a majority position on every issue. Some ague it is too weak, but I argue to the contrary. Your reps are the ones with direct input with this, and they are voted in by you. Do not like the fact that it is in effect a representational democracy, put pilots in there that will change the by laws.

The ALPA position is the majority position of 44K pilots, not a bunch of RJ pilots that secretly control the voice. Heck I know many of the ALPA positions that do nothing for the career advancement of the RJ crowd.

acl65pilot

On this issue I think ALPA does what it is doing right now. Pushing for someone to write a check for the service and technology that is needed to make crewpass operational for 12200 delta pilots. As I have been told by guys at National, it is not something that the government will spend one dime to pay for. That means it comes down to your and I paying for it each and every year, or the company. Of course if anything ever happened with a crewpass pilot the person paying could be legally liable. (There is the fear stopping this, I said it) Get the government to waive that liability form you or our corporation, and it will more than likely be paid for tomorrow.

It is a money and liability issue. Make sure all of us are who we say we are and then get someone to state that the FBI background checks are good, and I bet the money will show up.

It is not as easy as stomping your feet, though I wish it was.

As for the body scan. Opt out, get the pat down. It is your option, and mine too! Better yet go to little bag school.

DAWGS

Don't buy into the fear. Send the card in and give DPA a chance. The group is in its infancy. At the end of the day, Delta pilots will be looking out for Delta pilots and those pilots will be elected. Our dues will stay here. Look high and low, independent unions have the strongest scope. Part of our money currently goes to support other groups who currently fly and want to fly more of our pax/routes. Why would we continue to support this structure? Why some don't see this as a conflict or choose not to amazes me.

acl65pilot

Scambo;
I agree, ALPA should state the same thing. We cannot change the procedure but we have the option to opt out. I know I will. I do not want to get Cancer because of passing though these four or more times a week for the next 30 years which would be on top of all of the radiation we get while flying. It adds up to two or more chest x-rays a week for each pilot. I think I will opt out. It is my option.

acl65pilot

CAL has great scope. They never sold it, and they are ALPA.

DAWGS

A carry over from being independent. How long have they been in ALPA now? Give it time with ALPA negotiating. I would bet major duckies 50 seat scope goes away at UCAL.

acl65pilot

Well I have been long friends with a few of the voting reps on both sides of the fences in that merger and none of them are inclined to vote that way. They have stated to let the contracts expire and then the flying be brought in to the fold. Very smart imo. That way UCAL is not out any money for these contracts.

NuGuy

Heyas,

If the Feds don't want to pay, then it's on the company's dime. And no bovine excrement about "what will you give up to get it?".

This is a cost of doing business, plain and simple.

Nu

Carl Spackler

A very astute observation. The pro-ALPA guys would do well to stay extremely factual, but they're clearly not doing so. As the DPA continues to mature and more facts become available, I hope my pro-DPA side remembers how important the facts are...and scrupulously stick to them.

You're like a lot of the guys. Rantings and opinions won't sway you, but facts will. A lot of the pro-ALPA guys here are so sure they're only putting out facts, but a lot of it is so clearly their very biased opinion. They just can't realize it.

Carl