Delta Pilots Association
09-21-2010, 06:09 AM
#211
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Position: 320B
Posts: 781
Its only a matter of time until underboob shows up on this thread.
Me: I am not sure it requires pages and pages to delineate what is good and bad about ALPA. I dont like ALPA because I am certain we dont get our moneys worth and the conflict of interest issue. There are phenomenally great things about ALPA too: aeromedical, IFALPA, size/lobbying, etc. The etc. may be repeatable by and inhouse and also may not be repeatable. ALPA in its current configuration is somehow morally broken from the top down. Maybe that is my biggest issue with them and one that I am reminded of every month when I get the RJ pilot self-back-patting magazine.
I am tired of DALPA spin and expectations management, but I do believe the reps try to maintain a lookout for Delta pilots adrift in the greater sea of airline "business". Do I think a new union will fix those issues: Not really, but I am willing to listen.
Me: I am not sure it requires pages and pages to delineate what is good and bad about ALPA. I dont like ALPA because I am certain we dont get our moneys worth and the conflict of interest issue. There are phenomenally great things about ALPA too: aeromedical, IFALPA, size/lobbying, etc. The etc. may be repeatable by and inhouse and also may not be repeatable. ALPA in its current configuration is somehow morally broken from the top down. Maybe that is my biggest issue with them and one that I am reminded of every month when I get the RJ pilot self-back-patting magazine.
I am tired of DALPA spin and expectations management, but I do believe the reps try to maintain a lookout for Delta pilots adrift in the greater sea of airline "business". Do I think a new union will fix those issues: Not really, but I am willing to listen.
I am not against the idea of National ALPA and believe that there is a lot of good that can come from the establishment. I also would not like to go through the pain of starting up a new in-house union (I am sure that management would love for us to go through that hassle and infighting right before and during our next contract negotiations). I believe that the problem we face with our National Association is the same problem that many Americans are facing regarding our elected political representatives. The "elites" at the top of the political/union structure have grown out of touch with the people they are elected to represent. We get sold a bill of goods that never get delivered (and often aren't even attempted to be delivered). All this happens while we the people sit back and complain while no taking the time to really learn all the facts on an issue (mostly because it is very hard to get educated with true facts to the issues both politically and within our union). We offer suggestions to our friends, neighbors, anyone who will listen but only when it is convenient in our daily lives. We as a collective group need to stand up, take action within our organization and get educated about what is happening. We all need to do that and we know that, easy for me/us to say. The hard part is in actually getting past making the comment. Action is difficult, we are all busy and it seems like a daunting task with so many roadblocks. It is like the cliche of how to eat the elephant, one bite at a time. We need to take that bite and I hope that this DPA group will at least get more of us to take that first bite, some might actually like it.
The low number of people that actually make it to LEC meeting is disturbing, the low voter turnout is terrible and this is why the elected have been able to broaden the gap between those at the top and those that they are elected to represent. There is no accountability at the top and it needs to change.
Agreed!
09-21-2010, 06:20 AM
#212
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: Light Chop
Posts: 23,286
^^^^ something like that.
09-21-2010, 06:32 AM
#213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: 765-A
Posts: 6,844
But, like you say, the local reps were voted in. These reps voted in the MEC Chairman (Moak). If you try to say anything bad about Moak on this forum, you get pounded on by 10 people. If you try to say something good about someone who opposed Moak (KW), you get pounded on by 20 people. Moak is running for ALPA president. I expected those 30 people to be licking their chops for the chance to change the world of ALPA in a way they see fit.
We will see what happens. But, it should be good. A little competition never hurt anyone.
09-21-2010, 06:38 AM
#214
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
For years it appeared he proscribed even talk about SCOPE issues, and at times didn't even mention any SCOPE related issues in his Chairman's letters. When it was mentioned that this might be because he did not want to antagonize potential ALPA National voters (RJ Pilots) we were told by the DALPA defenders that we were paranoid and Lee had no intention of running for National Office.
You are either a person of your word, or you're not. When you're not, all of us need to take note.
Carl
09-21-2010, 06:43 AM
#215
The NeverEnding Story
Joined APC: Sep 2005
Posts: 7,609
Okay, I'm not an airline pilot anymore, but I have to ask the obvious question:
How has ALPA failed major airline pilots with scope, specifically Delta pilots?
Other than the scope that was lost during bankruptcy proceedings at NWA & DAL, didn't membership have to ratify any and all previous scope concessions (like the very first small jets going to Comair in the early 1990s)?
Where is the accountability for those who voted "yes" to any previous agreement that gave up scope?
I understand some of the "conflict of interest" concerns, but the vast majority of regional airline pilots don't want their companies to grow at the expense of mainline and would love nothing more than for all flying under a brand to be owned by mainline pilots....but that ship sailed two decades ago and is it really realistic to get it all back - especially in one fell swoop?
Additionally, major airline pilots own what scope they have left and only major airline pilots have the ability to sell more scope or buy it back - regional airline pilots don't have the ability to take it from you REGARDLESS of who the collective bargaining agent representing either party is.
From the outside looking in, there are plenty of reasons to be upset at ALPA National but when it comes to scope erosion, I'm not sure how much responsibility Herndon has for that; the onus for that is on the membership.
How has ALPA failed major airline pilots with scope, specifically Delta pilots?
Other than the scope that was lost during bankruptcy proceedings at NWA & DAL, didn't membership have to ratify any and all previous scope concessions (like the very first small jets going to Comair in the early 1990s)?
Where is the accountability for those who voted "yes" to any previous agreement that gave up scope?
I understand some of the "conflict of interest" concerns, but the vast majority of regional airline pilots don't want their companies to grow at the expense of mainline and would love nothing more than for all flying under a brand to be owned by mainline pilots....but that ship sailed two decades ago and is it really realistic to get it all back - especially in one fell swoop?
Additionally, major airline pilots own what scope they have left and only major airline pilots have the ability to sell more scope or buy it back - regional airline pilots don't have the ability to take it from you REGARDLESS of who the collective bargaining agent representing either party is.
From the outside looking in, there are plenty of reasons to be upset at ALPA National but when it comes to scope erosion, I'm not sure how much responsibility Herndon has for that; the onus for that is on the membership.
09-21-2010, 06:45 AM
#216
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
When the entrenched ALPA apologists post, make sure you read every single word. These guys have incredibly cushy positions and they will NOT let them go without one heck of a fight.
Carl
09-21-2010, 06:48 AM
#218
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I am not sure if the staff is growing or not, but after taking a quick look at the consolidated 2007 & 2008 financial reports. The current liabilities for Salaries and vacation pay went from $3,671,679 in 2007 to $6,013,204 in 2008 (approximately a 64% increase). Note, this is not the elected members as they have a separate line item for Members flight pay loss.
A couple of other nuggets from the report:
Defined Contribution Plans
All full-time employees with at least one year of service are eligible for participation in one of the following three deferred savings plans established for each group of employees: management non-bargaining, bargaining professional administrative, and bargaining non-exempt employees. The Association matches employee contributions $2 for each $1 contributed, to a maximum of 10 percent of the covered pre-tax compensation for participating employees.
Postretirement Medical Benefits
The Association provides comprehensive medical and dental health care benefits for retirees and their spouses and dependents.
A couple of other nuggets from the report:
Defined Contribution Plans
All full-time employees with at least one year of service are eligible for participation in one of the following three deferred savings plans established for each group of employees: management non-bargaining, bargaining professional administrative, and bargaining non-exempt employees. The Association matches employee contributions $2 for each $1 contributed, to a maximum of 10 percent of the covered pre-tax compensation for participating employees.
Postretirement Medical Benefits
The Association provides comprehensive medical and dental health care benefits for retirees and their spouses and dependents.
Carl
09-21-2010, 06:50 AM
#219
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I think the new "Super Carriers" should all have their own in-house then each submit one representative to a board that would handle lobbying in Washington. Problems solved. Each union looks out for their own interest while still presenting a unified front on the hill. The group could also build relations between each other group with with their own agreements on how future integrations, preferential hiring, contracting of flying, struck flying, etc would work. More of a hierarchy where each group still maintains their individual power yet benefits the industry as a whole.
Carl
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