Delta Pilots Association
10-30-2010, 12:02 PM
#1941
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Many of you would continue to support ALPA regardless of what they propose, good or bad, right or wrong. IMHO your allegiance is to ALPA and not the pilots of Delta. These are common sense issues, cut and dry, black and white. ALPA is trying to muddy the waters and you are supporting it. Aiding them rather than calling them out. Pat each other on the back and act like no one else understands or is informed, but the other side of the argument is intelligent and has had enough of this organization not representing its constituents. The time has come for all Delta Pilots to lead this industry out of the ALPA funk we have been in for the past decade.
Looking pretty good in the Cocktail Party.. if they can ever get past 3rd down... I think they have a real good chance.
Hey hey.. Ho ho..
Gators might lose 4 in a row...
Hey hey.. ho ho...
10-30-2010, 12:16 PM
#1944
Runs with scissors
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Going to hell in a bucket, but enjoying the ride .
Posts: 7,730
End of the first quarter neither one looks good today, I hope they both lose!
War Eagle!
10-30-2010, 12:28 PM
#1946
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
10-30-2010, 12:34 PM
#1947
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
I'd much rather see 1500 hours (and an actual ATP) for any airline job. However 500 hours is double the current (insanely low) minimum. I think current ATP mins and requirements plus an AMA style certification for multi engine multi crew passenger turbine ops should be the entry level standard. ALPA should lobby as hard as it can for at least the 1500 though, of course.
As for any compromise to "keep commuting legal" I doubt that is the case because there is no law, no regulation and no anything that can outlaw commuting. It is not possible. That's like saying pilots can't ever leave their "base" for vacation, family visits, road trips, etc. Will never happen because short of complete totalitarian takeover there is simply no way to even write an enforceable law.
The closest they can come would maybe to mandate you being "in base" a certain number of hours before report and that number would likely be 9 or 10 since that is normal rest and then some for most situations at the beginning of any trip. But you will always be able to "live" wherever you want. The absolute worst that can ever happen is that the junior half of every list/category who commutes will have to come in the day before more often than they already do. That's it. That's the absolute armageddon worst that can ever be enacted.
So to prevent that, we should have to give up other meaningful gains? Hardly. We should fight that kind of commuter restriction, but if we are unable to stop it now then we by definition lack the ability to stop the equivalent.
As for the "we better compromise on this otherwise the ATA will get cabotage" arguement, I don't buy into that. I'm sure the threat has been made, but rest assured that there is no compromise on earth that will stop the ATA from lobbying as hard as they absolutely can to give up our nation's flying to foreign slave labor no matter what the ATP limits are and no matter what the rest and duty rules are. This will be a max effort front burner effort (either publicly or behind the scenes, but full bore either way) by the ATA from now until the end of time. Compromising to stop something they will never give up in any case IMHO is a failed stratedgy.
As for any compromise to "keep commuting legal" I doubt that is the case because there is no law, no regulation and no anything that can outlaw commuting. It is not possible. That's like saying pilots can't ever leave their "base" for vacation, family visits, road trips, etc. Will never happen because short of complete totalitarian takeover there is simply no way to even write an enforceable law.
The closest they can come would maybe to mandate you being "in base" a certain number of hours before report and that number would likely be 9 or 10 since that is normal rest and then some for most situations at the beginning of any trip. But you will always be able to "live" wherever you want. The absolute worst that can ever happen is that the junior half of every list/category who commutes will have to come in the day before more often than they already do. That's it. That's the absolute armageddon worst that can ever be enacted.
So to prevent that, we should have to give up other meaningful gains? Hardly. We should fight that kind of commuter restriction, but if we are unable to stop it now then we by definition lack the ability to stop the equivalent.
As for the "we better compromise on this otherwise the ATA will get cabotage" arguement, I don't buy into that. I'm sure the threat has been made, but rest assured that there is no compromise on earth that will stop the ATA from lobbying as hard as they absolutely can to give up our nation's flying to foreign slave labor no matter what the ATP limits are and no matter what the rest and duty rules are. This will be a max effort front burner effort (either publicly or behind the scenes, but full bore either way) by the ATA from now until the end of time. Compromising to stop something they will never give up in any case IMHO is a failed stratedgy.
10-30-2010, 01:03 PM
#1948
done, gone skiing
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Rocking chair
Posts: 1,602
Many of you would continue to support ALPA regardless of what they propose, good or bad, right or wrong. IMHO your allegiance is to ALPA and not the pilots of Delta. These are common sense issues, cut and dry, black and white. ALPA is trying to muddy the waters and you are supporting it. Aiding them rather than calling them out. Pat each other on the back and act like no one else understands or is informed, but the other side of the argument is intelligent and has had enough of this organization not representing its constituents. The time has come for all Delta Pilots to lead this industry out of the ALPA funk we have been in for the past decade.
1. As you seek to decertify ALPA, your company will welcome your DPA with open arms, giving (them) access to employee names, address and phone numbers to help facilitate your election drive.
2. After your post win pizza and beer celebration replacing ALPA with DPA, your new leadership will loose interest in actually running a union and will melt way, "back to the line".
3. Your replacement "new" leadership, after sobering up from the party, will realize that a lot of work is needed to replace all the services Delta pilots were preforming while working for DALPA as volunteers. They will reach out to these tired-less workers, and ask them to step forward to continue to give their time to the new DPA union.
4. Many will accept and many more will answer with a one finger salute.
5. After a painful experience with several changes of (frustrated) leadership, and a lack of tireless volunteers, you will approach your management to administer your current contract and negotiate your follow on contract.
6. You will not find your management nearly as cooperative as they were when your were running your election to represent your group.
7. At some point, you will send a delegation to Washington to lobby for issues (you criticized ALPA over) and will be met by the Georgia delegation to congress.
8. They will meet you warmly ,offer you sweet icetea, thank you for removing that left leaning ALPA and tell you they are happy to see " They're Airline repesented by a good ole southern association ("we don't use the word union in the south!")
9. You will make very modest requests with an expectation that they will help you, even if they have never (ever) supported any labor related legislation.
10. They will offer you more sweet tea, shake your hands profusely, thank you for coming to Washington, and show you to the door, never to hear from them again.
11. Your delegation will go back to Atlanta, dazed and confused, but at least they were representing only your interests.
12. Someone will start a thread on Airline Pilots Central and wonder out loud if leaving ALPA really has (or will ever) improve your lot.
10-30-2010, 01:18 PM
#1949
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Take note of how much to this comes true......
1. As you seek to decertify ALPA, your company will welcome your DPA with open arms, giving (them) access to employee names, address and phone numbers to help facilitate your election drive.
2. After your post win pizza and beer celebration replacing ALPA with DPA, your new leadership will loose interest in actually running a union and will melt way, "back to the line".
3. Your replacement "new" leadership, after sobering up from the party, will realize that a lot of work is needed to replace all the services Delta pilots were preforming while working for DALPA as volunteers. They will reach out to these tired-less workers, and ask them to step forward to continue to give their time to the new DPA union.
4. Many will accept and many more will answer with a one finger salute.
5. After a painful experience with several changes of (frustrated) leadership, and a lack of tireless volunteers, you will approach your management to administer your current contract and negotiate your follow on contract.
6. You will not find your management nearly as cooperative as they were when your were running your election to represent your group.
7. At some point, you will send a delegation to Washington to lobby for issues (you criticized ALPA over) and will be met by the Georgia delegation to congress.
8. They will meet you warmly ,offer you sweet icetea, thank you for removing that left leaning ALPA and tell you they are happy to see " They're Airline repesented by a good ole southern association ("we don't use the word union in the south!")
9. You will make very modest requests with an expectation that they will help you, even if they have never (ever) supported any labor related legislation.
10. They will offer you more sweet tea, shake your hands profusely, thank you for coming to Washington, and show you to the door, never to hear from them again.
11. Your delegation will go back to Atlanta, dazed and confused, but at least they were representing only your interests.
12. Someone will start a thread on Airline Pilots Central and wonder out loud if leaving ALPA really has (or will ever) improve your lot.
But I will pose this to you: What do YOU think needs to be done at national? How can we fix the retardation and flat out corruption that apparently infests that place? And leave the "get elected" mantra elsewhere because I am not nor will I ever be a member of "the club", so that is an impossibility. Besides, I don't want a lobotomy scar.
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