Delta Pilots Association
10-29-2010, 05:58 AM
#1811
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,530
Please chime in and you don't need permission from ACL. They consistently say CAPA is an outsider without any seat at the table. This is one of their arguments to support continuing with ALPA. I would personally like to have some CAPA representatives here to refute misstatements and argue why CAPA would work for Delta. CAPA has consistently been on the correct side of the argument, imo. This 1500 hr. rule is just the latest to show the stark difference between CAPA and ALPA . I'm sure CAPA would have much more political clout if DAL and UAL went independent and became members of CAPA. The question I continue to have with the ALPA supporters who tout this "seat at the table" is.....What good is having this "seat" when the butts sitting in it don't represent the views of the average Delta Pilot?
10-29-2010, 06:03 AM
#1812
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,598
Please chime in and you don't need permission from ACL. They consistently say CAPA is an outsider without any seat at the table. This is one of their arguments to support continuing with ALPA. I would personally like to have some CAPA representatives here to refute misstatements and argue why CAPA would work for Delta. CAPA has consistently been on the correct side of the argument, imo. This 1500 hr. rule is just the latest to show the stark difference between CAPA and ALPA . I'm sure CAPA would have much more political clout if DAL and UAL went independent and became members of CAPA. The question I continue to have with the ALPA supporters who tout this "seat at the table" is.....What good is having this "seat" when the butts sitting in it don't represent the views of the average Delta Pilot?
ALPA may in fact be trying to "work" something that is more palatable to its Mainline members, but once again they're asking for blind trust. That's fine if they have a proven track record, but even then Reagan said "trust but verify".
Right now we have a situation where ALPA has abused their trust and must be more vigilant when it comes to keeping the membership informed. If they have time to send me ALPA-PAC pleas for money, they have time to update me on their stance. They'll get no more money until they start to represent MAINLINE pilots!
10-29-2010, 06:32 AM
#1813
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 374
I had a really good question posed to me; 1500 v 500 and the ramifications of choking the supply to the point that the lawmakers opted to allow foreign pilots to fly within our boarders because our requirements were too high.
At a min in made me think about the question, and the implication. I would also point out that with almost everything a "One Size Fits All" type of approach seldom works. I do agree that 500 is to low, as it is still close enough to buy your time, but in many instances like the military 1500 is overkill. I much prefer a graduated law that takes in to account ones educational background, where the Part 141/142 or 61 school took place, and if they offered an Approved Jet Transition course. I submitted my suggestions.
As for the NPRM I saw a list today of the gripes or issues that ALPA has with em, and guess what?, Many of the ones listed on this board are the same issues that their National Union holds.
At a min in made me think about the question, and the implication. I would also point out that with almost everything a "One Size Fits All" type of approach seldom works. I do agree that 500 is to low, as it is still close enough to buy your time, but in many instances like the military 1500 is overkill. I much prefer a graduated law that takes in to account ones educational background, where the Part 141/142 or 61 school took place, and if they offered an Approved Jet Transition course. I submitted my suggestions.
As for the NPRM I saw a list today of the gripes or issues that ALPA has with em, and guess what?, Many of the ones listed on this board are the same issues that their National Union holds.
Even if our government wants to sign off on it, most other countries will not sign such a deal. Their unions are more afraid about cheaper American pilots taking thier jobs than we are of them! Just take a look at the international payrates. We lag embarrassingly behind. Like I said, contrary to what you guys think, foreign pilots are not drooling to come fly over here at the current wages. US pilots are among the lowest paid airline pilots in the world when you look at the wage:cost of living ratio.
Now what if the governments mutually agree and allow cabotage...worst case scenario? Nothing to be that scared of. US airliners will expand as our cost structure is lower. The likes of Lufthansa, AF, KLM etc have much higher cost structures than us. Hell...even Ryanair cost structure is not that low. (They pay their employees in GBP). That is why none of these will happen in the near future.
Answering the second part of you reply: Most here don't think 1500 hrs is an overkill. Your suggestion of approving certain educational quals, jet transition etc leaves room for too many loopholes which will be exploited by the likes of ERAU, UND etc. Make it simple and clear: 1500hrs.
Last edited by freightguy; 10-29-2010 at 06:55 AM.
10-29-2010, 06:42 AM
#1814
:-)
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Posts: 7,339
When you have low requirements, say 250hrs minimum, during hiring booms you tend to have rushed training to get to the line ASAP. The problem is that if the training is botched up, it may not show up until years down the line, i.e. the colgan crash. The 1500hr is as much a psychological barrier as an experience one, since it forces you to slow down the training, or to find weakness in your own abilities through teaching others. For ALPA or anyone to try and take that off the table is confusing. Without any explanation from ALPA, you have to start lumping them in with the other groups, ATA, RAA, etc.
10-29-2010, 06:45 AM
#1815
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
ACL...while I'm not one of your own, I have watched this forum with interest and noticed that you have allowed AirTran pilots to post, so I thought I'd clear up something you just posted...namely that
This is factually incorrect. I can only assume that it is a misstatement on your part.
CAPA is and has been part of the ARC and NPRM process on this and FT/DT. The sad part is that the industry players and ALPA have on numerous occasions, called last minute meetings without notifying some members of the ARC until the last minute.
The industry members (ATA, RAA, NBAA, AABI and AOPA) have floated numerous trial balloons on reduced hours to guage where CAPA and others would come down. They have not budged one iota on the 1500 hour minimum.
I can tell you that the Congressmen, Senators and the families of Colgan 3407...who pushed this through despite ALPA...are livid with ALPA's assistance in the watering down effort. This is not secondhand, filtered information. This is firsthand from some of the players.
I respect your right to your opinions and carrying the torch for the team. I would also remind you of the words of a U.S. Senator who once famously said:
"We are all entitled to our opinions. We are not entitled to our own set of facts."
This is factually incorrect. I can only assume that it is a misstatement on your part.
CAPA is and has been part of the ARC and NPRM process on this and FT/DT. The sad part is that the industry players and ALPA have on numerous occasions, called last minute meetings without notifying some members of the ARC until the last minute.
The industry members (ATA, RAA, NBAA, AABI and AOPA) have floated numerous trial balloons on reduced hours to guage where CAPA and others would come down. They have not budged one iota on the 1500 hour minimum.
I can tell you that the Congressmen, Senators and the families of Colgan 3407...who pushed this through despite ALPA...are livid with ALPA's assistance in the watering down effort. This is not secondhand, filtered information. This is firsthand from some of the players.
I respect your right to your opinions and carrying the torch for the team. I would also remind you of the words of a U.S. Senator who once famously said:
"We are all entitled to our opinions. We are not entitled to our own set of facts."
Your correct. I should have been clear about Sully's letter.
10-29-2010, 07:08 AM
#1816
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
Please chime in and you don't need permission from ACL. They consistently say CAPA is an outsider without any seat at the table. This is one of their arguments to support continuing with ALPA. I would personally like to have some CAPA representatives here to refute misstatements and argue why CAPA would work for Delta. CAPA has consistently been on the correct side of the argument, imo. This 1500 hr. rule is just the latest to show the stark difference between CAPA and ALPA . I'm sure CAPA would have much more political clout if DAL and UAL went independent and became members of CAPA. The question I continue to have with the ALPA supporters who tout this "seat at the table" is.....What good is having this "seat" when the butts sitting in it don't represent the views of the average Delta Pilot?
10-29-2010, 07:19 AM
#1818
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Supporting the idea, but having "issues" with the details is more political, weasel words. Say what you mean, and mean what you say. ALPA does neither.
Carl
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