Delta Pilots Association
10-28-2010, 03:06 PM
#1791
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Just curious here...I've seen membership stats over the last few years and am wondering if this board is somewhat representative of who Delta has hired in the past.
How many of the regular posters on this board started their first airline (121 or 135 in the day) gig with less than 1500 hours?
How many paid for training?
How many Guard/Reserve babies with only a couple years active duty?
How many graduated from an accredited University program (ND, PU, SIU, AU type), Embry Riddle, or CMR Academy?
Thanks!
How many of the regular posters on this board started their first airline (121 or 135 in the day) gig with less than 1500 hours?
How many paid for training?
How many Guard/Reserve babies with only a couple years active duty?
How many graduated from an accredited University program (ND, PU, SIU, AU type), Embry Riddle, or CMR Academy?
Thanks!
So, I don't fit in any of those buckets.
10-28-2010, 03:09 PM
#1792
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
1. This isn't a scientific poll, and no policy or process investigation is created from this discussion. That's quite different from why/how ALPA does polling.
2. Since I asked the question, I think it's apparent that I care. (Even about you, Scambo!)
3. Thanks for sharing your view. You realize that even if the rule passes as you desire, there will be less than 1500 hour commercial airline pilots flying through and into US airspace and airports.
2. Since I asked the question, I think it's apparent that I care. (Even about you, Scambo!)
3. Thanks for sharing your view. You realize that even if the rule passes as you desire, there will be less than 1500 hour commercial airline pilots flying through and into US airspace and airports.
I don't care if they are spit out of the womb and into an airliner cockpit in their home country, I do not want the US to buckle to their crap for our rules.
1500 hours is required for an ATP because you have at least been there, done that and scared yourself a few times. At 500 hours you barely know that you've scared yourself and haven't matured.
10-28-2010, 03:45 PM
#1794
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
1. This isn't a scientific poll, and no policy or process investigation is created from this discussion. That's quite different from why/how ALPA does polling.
2. Since I asked the question, I think it's apparent that I care. (Even about you, Scambo!)
3. Thanks for sharing your view. You realize that even if the rule passes as you desire, there will be less than 1500 hour commercial airline pilots flying through and into US airspace and airports.
2. Since I asked the question, I think it's apparent that I care. (Even about you, Scambo!)
3. Thanks for sharing your view. You realize that even if the rule passes as you desire, there will be less than 1500 hour commercial airline pilots flying through and into US airspace and airports.
Slow;
Look, I like to do a drive-by as much as the next guy, that accounts for comment #1
I care too, and I am a-okay with grandfathering those already here. I am also a-okay with giving a multiplier to high-performance jet people.
The question I would like to have answered is why on earth would ALPA not support the 1500 hour rule?
10-28-2010, 03:48 PM
#1795
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
------------
Slow;
Look, I like to do a drive-by as much as the next guy, that accounts for comment #1
I care too, and I am a-okay with grandfathering those already here. I am also a-okay with giving a multiplier to high-performance jet people.
The question I would like to have answered is why on earth would ALPA not support the 1500 hour rule?
Slow;
Look, I like to do a drive-by as much as the next guy, that accounts for comment #1
I care too, and I am a-okay with grandfathering those already here. I am also a-okay with giving a multiplier to high-performance jet people.
The question I would like to have answered is why on earth would ALPA not support the 1500 hour rule?
10-28-2010, 03:54 PM
#1796
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Posts: 374
Slow
Look, I like to do a drive-by as much as the next guy, that accounts for comment #1
I care too, and I am a-okay with grandfathering those already here. I am also a-okay with giving a multiplier to high-performance jet people.
[B]The question I would like to have answered is why on earth would ALPA not support the 1500 hour rule?[B]
Look, I like to do a drive-by as much as the next guy, that accounts for comment #1
I care too, and I am a-okay with grandfathering those already here. I am also a-okay with giving a multiplier to high-performance jet people.
[B]The question I would like to have answered is why on earth would ALPA not support the 1500 hour rule?[B]
10-28-2010, 04:41 PM
#1797
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Just curious.. I haven't really thought it thru, but what number IS acceptable? 1500 seems to be a number that has everybody's panties bunched up.. but what is magic about it? It seems to me that it takes about 1000 hours to really get comfortable in a new airplane.. but that's just me.. and I am talking comfortable.. not competent.
Carl
10-28-2010, 05:45 PM
#1798
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Hawaii...how? I tried talking with ALPA reps regarding fixing ALPA from within. But like many here claim...I found out ALPA has gotten too big for itself. We as airline pilots took +40% paycuts. But the ALPA chairman still makes close to half a million dollars. Heck...even secretaries at ALPA makes six figure salaries pushing papers (and they are home every night) while we land full jetliners in IMC for less. ALPA failed us during massive paycuts...but it sure did not affect their pay like it did ours....absolutely shameful, unethical and disgraceful.
I also taked to ALPA reps about strongly supporting and lobbying for the 1500 hr rule. But...excuses...excuses. Can't support the 1500hr rule. 500 hrs is good enough. I apparently don't get the big picture.
I do get the big picture....this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to control supply, drive up demand and regain pricing power...and ALPA is f'n it up.
Age 65, fatigue rules...I can go on and on. I am willing to support ALPA and support them if they can address these issues. ut so far they are not listening. But I am not willing to sit back an watch ALPA ruin one more f'n thing. I'm fed up.
Also I've been fed up with poor communication from ALPA. For almost every issue, they say: "There is stuff happening in the background that we can't tell you. You guys don't have the big picture". I am just sick and tired of supporting a 'super-secret' association.
I also taked to ALPA reps about strongly supporting and lobbying for the 1500 hr rule. But...excuses...excuses. Can't support the 1500hr rule. 500 hrs is good enough. I apparently don't get the big picture.
I do get the big picture....this is a once in a lifetime opportunity to control supply, drive up demand and regain pricing power...and ALPA is f'n it up.
Age 65, fatigue rules...I can go on and on. I am willing to support ALPA and support them if they can address these issues. ut so far they are not listening. But I am not willing to sit back an watch ALPA ruin one more f'n thing. I'm fed up.
Also I've been fed up with poor communication from ALPA. For almost every issue, they say: "There is stuff happening in the background that we can't tell you. You guys don't have the big picture". I am just sick and tired of supporting a 'super-secret' association.
At a min in made me think about the question, and the implication. I would also point out that with almost everything a "One Size Fits All" type of approach seldom works. I do agree that 500 is to low, as it is still close enough to buy your time, but in many instances like the military 1500 is overkill. I much prefer a graduated law that takes in to account ones educational background, where the Part 141/142 or 61 school took place, and if they offered an Approved Jet Transition course. I submitted my suggestions.
As for the NPRM I saw a list today of the gripes or issues that ALPA has with em, and guess what?, Many of the ones listed on this board are the same issues that their National Union holds.
10-28-2010, 05:53 PM
#1799
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I disagree. The market's answer to the 1500 hr requirement will come as higher wages and QOL for the pilots to attract more experienced pilot to the industry. When supply goes down and demand goes up, wages increase in proportion to the demand. They definitely won't be able to get 1500 hr pilots to fly for $20,000 to $30,000 ranges at regionals thereby killing the regional industry. Why do you think regional airlines are hell bent on reducing the required number of hours?
About foreign pilots coming here to replace us: you cannot immigrate to the US to fly for an airliner. Immigrating to the US, getting a work permit and flying for an airliner is a very long and drawn out procedure. On the other hand, you really think foreign pilots are drooling to come here and fly for $hit wages? Do you even know any foreign pilots? I know many and they are flabbergasted to hear how much I make....especially looking at the wages to living cost ratio. In most of Asia, a mid-size jet pilot makes as much as 2-5 times more than a medical surgeon in their country....I'm not making it up...it is a fact.
Look at medical doctors in this country. The AMA has techniques similar to 1500hr rule to curb supply. AMA does everything in their power to limit supply from controlling seats at medical universities to placing huge obstacles for foreign doctors from immigrating to the US. That is why you wait weeks or months to go see a Dermatologist. At the end of the day, they make $200,000 to $500,000/yr. Why: low supply and high demand.
About foreign pilots coming here to replace us: you cannot immigrate to the US to fly for an airliner. Immigrating to the US, getting a work permit and flying for an airliner is a very long and drawn out procedure. On the other hand, you really think foreign pilots are drooling to come here and fly for $hit wages? Do you even know any foreign pilots? I know many and they are flabbergasted to hear how much I make....especially looking at the wages to living cost ratio. In most of Asia, a mid-size jet pilot makes as much as 2-5 times more than a medical surgeon in their country....I'm not making it up...it is a fact.
Look at medical doctors in this country. The AMA has techniques similar to 1500hr rule to curb supply. AMA does everything in their power to limit supply from controlling seats at medical universities to placing huge obstacles for foreign doctors from immigrating to the US. That is why you wait weeks or months to go see a Dermatologist. At the end of the day, they make $200,000 to $500,000/yr. Why: low supply and high demand.
In the near term you may be correct. They will need to raise wages to fill 121 flight decks as they work on a rewrite of the US-Europe Open Skies Accord. Trust me these lawmakers only care about low fares and if Ryanair promises them, they will allow them. This is about slowly tightening the restrictions. Think of a lobster and a boiling pot of water versus a warm pot of water that has the heat slowly added to it.
Bar makes a very realistic point and one that the ATA will push for and probably get five to seven years after this rule goes in to effect. I am no fan of it either, but that is just the ugly reality of the world we live in.
CAPA wrote a letter alpa is part of the process.
10-28-2010, 05:57 PM
#1800
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Renslow and the FO would not have been hired in the first place as they didn't have anywhere close to 1500 hours... they had around 500 or 600 hours when they got hired. Renslow did the Gulfstream program with 250 hours in the Beech 1900 (which I DESPISE).
This is why I am for the 1500 hour rule. It's a significant barrier to entry and requires real world experience of some sort... I cannot see anyone arguing against that. Sure it may be checks or just CFIing, but it is command time.
This is why I am for the 1500 hour rule. It's a significant barrier to entry and requires real world experience of some sort... I cannot see anyone arguing against that. Sure it may be checks or just CFIing, but it is command time.
Moreover, it should not just be time. It should also be relative work experience. I suggested a minimum of 18 months of verifiable work and flight time in my proposal. It also leads pilots to degrees and on some level degrees in an aviation related field. This in my opinion is step one in a two to three part process.
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