Carl Spackler

Nobody, and I mean nobody that I talk to mentions frustration or emotion when I discuss this with them. First of all, every one of my fellow crew members (both copilots and the augment Captain) has told me they are AGAINST keeping ALPA. I'm even stunned by this. Granted my crowd on the 747 are fellow old farts, but that's my experience thus far. Second, I always ask them why they want to make a change from ALPA. The answer is always either Scope, Pay, ALPA ineffectiveness, ALPA bureaucracy, etc. Nobody thus far has said that they were angry or disgusted or anything of the sort. It's always as simple as: "ALPA's broke and we need a change."

No matter how much you guys want to diminish this by calling it emotional and driven by frustration, it's just not the case. I don't know if you realize how insulting many people find those comments. Pilots are driven to fight emotion and panic in the cockpit. Most of us are very good at implementing that same behavior outside of the cockpit...even though you apparently don't think so. All the emotion and panic I see is on the ALPA supporters on this board. I've never seen such fear mongering and use of factless scare tactics.

Carl

KC10 FATboy

Military trained ... 3400 military hours / 10.5 years active service.

I went to two state schools on a partial scholarship.

I paid AllATP for two orientation flights in a seminole and then rented it for the ATP check.

freightguy

Absolutely capncrunch. ALPA has been rolling around this 1500hr issue for a while. ALPA reps have given me all kinds of BS excuses which they got from the national...none of which makes any sense.

First it was: We are supporting the reduction of the 1500hr requirement as a bargaining chip against Emirates getting more landing slots in the US.

Now: Poor airline managements won't be able to find qualified pilots if we up the requirement to 1500hrs! Barriers to entry for all the glossy eyed SJS kids will be too high!! (Somehow this is our problem now?)

None of this makes any f'n sense. Capncrunch is right on. This is a game by ALPA national to appease the regional airline industry. And the game is played with our dues checks. If you have any doubts, please re-read this again.

October 13, 2010

Committee Challenges New 1500 Hr Requirement For FO's

By Glenn Pew, Contributing Editor, Video Editor

The FAA's aviation safety bill passed earlier this year, but a new report suggests the included prerequisite 1,500 hours flight experience for commercial airline copilots may not be necessary. An FAA advisory committee led by a regional airline official has proposed that 500 actual flight hours may be enough. Language in the safety legislation says that the FAA Administrator "may allow specific academic training courses ... to be credited toward the total flight hours required." The committee suggests that through an elaborate structure of training courses, up to two-thirds of the safety law's required 1,500 flight hours could be satisfied with other credited training. The proposal is merely a recommendation and it is not clear that there is any wiggle room in other language that specifically imposes the flight hours requirement. Meanwhile, the proposal has reignited the total hours versus quality-of-training argument. And pilot groups, industry voices and safety advocates are weighing in.

Legislators who fought for the safety bill's language say the law explicitly requires 1,500 flight hours, and any modifications must be justified by a resultant increase in safety. The president of the Regional Airline Association, Roger Cohen, has a different opinion. Cohen said academic work is "far more useful in training pilots for modern airline operations" than hours spent "towing banners above the beach." As for the FAA, Administrator Randy Babbitt supports improved training over a general requirement for more flight hours. Babbitt has previously commented on the subject, saying "experience is not measured by flight time alone." The Regional Airline Association holds the view that a "proper mix of the experience and academic/training approaches" would best ensure safety. And two pilot groups represented on the committee have split on the issue. The Air Line Pilots Association backed the committee's recommendations, while the Coalition of Air Line Pilot Associations supported experience over even enhanced training.

freightguy

3000+ hrs before my first 121 airline job. Civilian background: Former flight instructor, 135 freight dog, ferry pilot.

Carl Spackler

Only the hopelessly indoctrinated in the ALPA regime would call this tribalism and isolationism. But I hope you keep doing this slow. It helps more and more pilots make up their minds on this issue.

That didn't used to be the case...now it is. It's painful for an apologist like you to face, but facts are facts.

Carl

TheManager

Yo Slo,

In all seriousness, how about an answer to my question while you wait for for your poll numbers to come in.

What would your solution be to these issues that are being brought up about ALPA. Put your self in LM's shoes as he heads to National. How would you handle it? If ALPA can truly be changed from within....then lay out how you see it coming together and happening. Enlight us here.

For your poll: TT 2295 hrs/ 700me first 121 airline
Next airline: TT 6200hrs w/ turboprop and jet.
Current Airline: TT 7900 w/ 1700 hrs large transport a/c time.

From experience, 500 is not safe.

OscartheGrouch

Whoa! Now I do understand you Carl. You are our and about trying to stir up all kinds of trouble. First time I have ventured out of the threads that have to do with SWA. You are scary! Please don't drag down your fellow DAL folks with the miserable world you live in. Have a nice day.

The Oscar

(I'm watching you)

scambo1

------
On the first point, wasn't the DALPA online poll, which was answered by 30% of the pilots, "somewhat representative of who Delta hired in the past?"

And on the rest of the questions, I say "SO WHAT" or "who cares."

When I was a new hire, we hadn't fully outsourced yet. I believed military deserved the same shot as everyone else to get hired at a major. Past tense.

I no longer feel that way completely. I am for scope recapture. If that means we fly 50-76 seat jets at DAL, then that is the new mainline entry level. Ex-mil can enter the mainline at the new entry level.

1500 should be the minimum to have an airline job.

Carl Spackler

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

This! +1

Carl

slowplay

1. This isn't a scientific poll, and no policy or process investigation is created from this discussion. That's quite different from why/how ALPA does polling.

2. Since I asked the question, I think it's apparent that I care. (Even about you, Scambo!)

3. Thanks for sharing your view. You realize that even if the rule passes as you desire, there will be less than 1500 hour commercial airline pilots flying through and into US airspace and airports.