Carl Spackler

The TOS is for normal posters. You are a moderator. As such you should be above the TOS. You're not. You just posted pure rumor and lies. That should prohibit you from moderating any thread. Post all you like and disagree all you like, just don't moderate. You should resign.

Carl

Carl Spackler

Is he really cool too?

Carl

acl65pilot

Actually I really enjoy his company. I have known him for a long time. Great guy.

B7ER Guy

Carl:
Lighten up man. Stop getting so wired over stuff you cannot control.
Besides, my "no vote" cancells out your "yes vote."

Reroute

"ALPA’s extensive capabilities in the area of economic and financial analysis and other related services. It is safe to assert that the relationship between ALPA and APA is the best it’s been in decades. Working together, we can advance the profession far more than acting as competitors." APA President

Glad to see that the APA appreciates the unique capabilities a national union can bring to the table.

Telling that a large independent union like the APA doesn't have these capabilities.

I wonder if DPA has anything similar to offer the Delta pilots in section 6, or will they just wing it and shoot from the hip, without "ALPA's extensive capabilities?" Something that the APA, is most certainly not willing to do.

I have a hard time believing that any true trade unionist would prefer a fractured system of small independent unions over a robust national union with the "extensive capabilities" it brings to the table.

Let's be honest, DPA is nothing more than a web board, with no capabilities to deliver at all, which is probablty why the APA didn't go running down to Tampa to tap into DPA's extensive capabilities.

FlyingViking

I agree to an extent, just too bad they are not suited for Delta pilots but rather focus on the RJ crowd. It is a good thing a lot of us are willing to give it a try instead of listening to the same old stuff. Any Delta pilot should appreciate the effort given by the founder of DPA and give them a chance to prove themself against ALPA. Once all the cards are laid out, then and only then, will it be right to critique like you do. May the union that serves Delta pilots the best win.

Reroute

I disagree.

This side show will only serve to divide and weaken us. This is not a free shot, it will have negative consequences for the Delta pilots.

And as far as the implication that the "Rj crowd" drives our negotiations. That's not true at all. Our scope is the result of the priorities of the Delta/NWA pilots, no one elses. Passing the buck solves nothing.

PCL_128

ALPA doesn't pay for the services, ALPA is the services. They aren't contracted out to outside providers, they come from within. ALPA's head professional negotiator has been negotiating pilot contracts since 1979. Good luck getting someone like that on the open market. These kinds of resources just aren't available outside of ALPA. There are some things that you can get, usually for far greater cost, since there is no economy of scale, but many things that ALPA provides are only available within ALPA.

Experienced reps know that a "union" like the DPA would be an enormous disaster just waiting to fall flat on its face, and they would be unlikely to take part in it. You'd be left with the third and fourth string volunteers with little or no experience. But that's not what really matters. What really matters is the institutional knowledge from the ALPA staff that you would lose forever, regardless of whether the pilot volunteers stay. Have you been up to the 8th floor to see DALPA HQ? It's an impressive sight. There are dozens of staff members working constantly to represent your interests. From attorneys to benefits specialists to scheduling experts, you have an incredible amount of experienced staff. That doesn't come with you if you leave ALPA. And it's really irreplaceable.

It's not really a "profit," since a union is a non-profit organization, but it does bring in more revenue than the expenses that it generates.

Yes, I've seen that it's been brought up, but just because you've dismissed it doesn't mean that it's not important.

To the contrary, I don't think this vote will ever occur. You'll never get close to the cards required to file for an election. Your peers are far too smart to buy the snake oil from the salesman, even if you aren't.

Because these silly independent union campaigns are a needless distraction that serve only to divide pilots rather than to unify them.

The new ALPA President, one of your own pilots, got elected because of the support of mainline pilots, not just RJ pilots. The same was true of Captain Prater. Mainline carriers still control a majority of the votes within ALPA, and probably always will. The idea that ALPA has become an "RJ union" is absurd to anyone who has seen the internal politics of a BOD meeting.

ALPA doesn't publish the services agreements that it signs with other unions. However, many such agreements exist. Before we were ALPA, our independent union at AirTran, the NPA, had to contract for many services with ALPA that we were unable to provide for ourselves. APA, a union with an incredible dues revenue stream, still needs ALPA for support services in negotiations. All independent pilot unions have services agreements with ALPA from time to time. They sometimes try to get away from it, because some radical new anti-ALPA leaders get elected, but then they realize that they can't do it alone, and they come back for help. Eventually, they realize that they are better off joining ALPA. The NPA and FPA are perfect examples of this.

Bucking Bar

Agreed and with the candidates for MEC Chair a major swerve towards the status quo is occurring.

Many pilots' rationale with the DPA is that a change of representation is needed simply to nuke our self sustaining MEC power structure out. Once the offices are cleaned out, they want to return to ALPA.

I'm an ALPA supporter, but certainly relate to the frustration that drives the DPA supporters. I try to remind them to focus on the fundamentals and not emotion.

Superpilot92

Status quo is no longer acceptable, either alpa changes or it needs to go. Alpa brought this upon it's self and almost every real issue in the last decade has only compounded their inability to change. There is a monumental conflict of interest within alpa when it represents the mainline and regional pilots at the same time.

If nothing more, I hope this dpa push causes change within alpa.