Delta Pilots Association
10-26-2010, 06:28 PM
#1651
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I'll use your post, since it's indicative of the posts by tsquare, CapnCrunch and Carl too.
You have no clue how polling will be conducted at DPA, you just HOPE is isn't like the polling ALPA did/does. You are vilifying ALPA when I can guarantee you DPA will use the same method for constructing its negotiating priorities as ALPA does. It will not (sorry, Carl, you're clueless) publish them. Steve Dickson is a member in Good Standing, and also negotiates for the company.
The polling DPA does would show a pilot group with objectives and expectations that vary on many issues. They would have to have some method of reconciling the differences. I'd love to hear your vision of how DPA would resolve those differences, if not by the governing body.
My point is that every flaw you see in ALPA would exist in DPA. In fact, the DPA boss, and their website claim many of the ALPA volunteers would continue in their same positions. Interesting!
So what you really dislike is National?
Then frame your argument around that, and defend your claim that change is needed. All I've heard so far is anger. That's great for a hockey game, but stupid for serving a pilot group.
You have no clue how polling will be conducted at DPA, you just HOPE is isn't like the polling ALPA did/does. You are vilifying ALPA when I can guarantee you DPA will use the same method for constructing its negotiating priorities as ALPA does. It will not (sorry, Carl, you're clueless) publish them. Steve Dickson is a member in Good Standing, and also negotiates for the company.
The polling DPA does would show a pilot group with objectives and expectations that vary on many issues. They would have to have some method of reconciling the differences. I'd love to hear your vision of how DPA would resolve those differences, if not by the governing body.
My point is that every flaw you see in ALPA would exist in DPA. In fact, the DPA boss, and their website claim many of the ALPA volunteers would continue in their same positions. Interesting!
So what you really dislike is National?
Then frame your argument around that, and defend your claim that change is needed. All I've heard so far is anger. That's great for a hockey game, but stupid for serving a pilot group.
I wish you wouldn't lump me in with capncrunch and carl in this issue. I am not (necessarily) a pro DPA guy, and I fully understand the necessity to keep some polls secret. But... I am very anti ALPA national at this point, and I am willing to give Lee a few months to start making changes there... and it had best start with his very own salary. But also, in the same vane, you and acl and PG talk about reforming alpa from within, yet you only offer the same old tired way to do it. And we all KNOW that that doesn't work.
10-26-2010, 06:33 PM
#1652
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2010
Position: Boeing Boss
Posts: 335
I am very anti ALPA national at this point, and I am willing to give Lee a few months to start making changes there... and it had best start with his very own salary. But also, in the same vane, you and acl and PG talk about reforming alpa from within, yet you only offer the same old tired way to do it. And we all KNOW that that doesn't work.
Were those your feelings following C2K? Did it work then?
10-26-2010, 06:40 PM
#1653
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
That was 8 years ago. What have you done for me lately? There were aspects of C2k that I didn't like, but voted yes on an overall package. The point is that nobody at national has taken a hit like the proletariat has. Not one single leader from alpa national has visited a single LEC meeting of the pilot group that represents over 20% of the overall dues paying membership. Yeah, I am a little burned up about that, and I find it to be a failure on their part. But there is nothing that "I" or "we" (assuming that you find it reprehensible too).. can do about it because as has been pointed out ad nauseum.. they are too insulated. Their buddies in the compensation committee will recommend the status quo, and yada yada yada here we go again... and before you start... $25,000 paycut doesn't even BEGIN to get where it needs to be IMO. So just going on believing that this system works, and I will eventually help to tear it down, if for nothing else to send you a message.
10-26-2010, 06:40 PM
#1654
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,325
I'll use your post, since it's indicative of the posts by tsquare, CapnCrunch and Carl too.
You have no clue how polling will be conducted at DPA, you just HOPE is isn't like the polling ALPA did/does. You are vilifying ALPA when I can guarantee you DPA will use the same method for constructing its negotiating priorities as ALPA does. It will not (sorry, Carl, you're clueless) publish them. Steve Dickson is a member in Good Standing, and also negotiates for the company.
The polling DPA does would show a pilot group with objectives and expectations that vary on many issues. They would have to have some method of reconciling the differences. I'd love to hear your vision of how DPA would resolve those differences, if not by the governing body.
My point is that every flaw you see in ALPA would exist in DPA. In fact, the DPA boss, and their website claim many of the ALPA volunteers would continue in their same positions. Interesting!
So what you really dislike is National?
Then frame your argument around that, and defend your claim that change is needed. All I've heard so far is anger. That's great for a hockey game, but stupid for serving a pilot group.
You have no clue how polling will be conducted at DPA, you just HOPE is isn't like the polling ALPA did/does. You are vilifying ALPA when I can guarantee you DPA will use the same method for constructing its negotiating priorities as ALPA does. It will not (sorry, Carl, you're clueless) publish them. Steve Dickson is a member in Good Standing, and also negotiates for the company.
The polling DPA does would show a pilot group with objectives and expectations that vary on many issues. They would have to have some method of reconciling the differences. I'd love to hear your vision of how DPA would resolve those differences, if not by the governing body.
My point is that every flaw you see in ALPA would exist in DPA. In fact, the DPA boss, and their website claim many of the ALPA volunteers would continue in their same positions. Interesting!
So what you really dislike is National?
Then frame your argument around that, and defend your claim that change is needed. All I've heard so far is anger. That's great for a hockey game, but stupid for serving a pilot group.
10-26-2010, 07:16 PM
#1656
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
I'll use your post, since it's indicative of the posts by tsquare, CapnCrunch and Carl too.
You have no clue how polling will be conducted at DPA, you just HOPE is isn't like the polling ALPA did/does. You are vilifying ALPA when I can guarantee you DPA will use the same method for constructing its negotiating priorities as ALPA does. It will not (sorry, Carl, you're clueless) publish them. Steve Dickson is a member in Good Standing, and also negotiates for the company.
The polling DPA does would show a pilot group with objectives and expectations that vary on many issues. They would have to have some method of reconciling the differences. I'd love to hear your vision of how DPA would resolve those differences, if not by the governing body.
My point is that every flaw you see in ALPA would exist in DPA. In fact, the DPA boss, and their website claim many of the ALPA volunteers would continue in their same positions. Interesting!
So what you really dislike is National?
Then frame your argument around that, and defend your claim that change is needed. All I've heard so far is anger. That's great for a hockey game, but stupid for serving a pilot group.
You have no clue how polling will be conducted at DPA, you just HOPE is isn't like the polling ALPA did/does. You are vilifying ALPA when I can guarantee you DPA will use the same method for constructing its negotiating priorities as ALPA does. It will not (sorry, Carl, you're clueless) publish them. Steve Dickson is a member in Good Standing, and also negotiates for the company.
The polling DPA does would show a pilot group with objectives and expectations that vary on many issues. They would have to have some method of reconciling the differences. I'd love to hear your vision of how DPA would resolve those differences, if not by the governing body.
My point is that every flaw you see in ALPA would exist in DPA. In fact, the DPA boss, and their website claim many of the ALPA volunteers would continue in their same positions. Interesting!
So what you really dislike is National?
Then frame your argument around that, and defend your claim that change is needed. All I've heard so far is anger. That's great for a hockey game, but stupid for serving a pilot group.
Slash;
If you read anger in my post, you should avoid the LSAT where rapid reading comprehension is a significant part of the grade.
I am however disappointed. My disappointment is not only with ALPA, but in general with my fellow pilots who do not take the time or initiative to at least learn the issues and vote on them. I would bet that there are reps who feel similar disappointment.
At the end of the day, I have one vote and you have one vote. How they are cast is an individual choice. I don't need your help to figure out how to choose for myself, but I don't begrudge you for trying.
Last edited by scambo1; 10-26-2010 at 07:30 PM.
10-26-2010, 07:21 PM
#1658
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
That was 8 years ago. What have you done for me lately? There were aspects of C2k that I didn't like, but voted yes on an overall package. The point is that nobody at national has taken a hit like the proletariat has. Not one single leader from alpa national has visited a single LEC meeting of the pilot group that represents over 20% of the overall dues paying membership. Yeah, I am a little burned up about that, and I find it to be a failure on their part. But there is nothing that "I" or "we" (assuming that you find it reprehensible too).. can do about it because as has been pointed out ad nauseum.. they are too insulated. Their buddies in the compensation committee will recommend the status quo, and yada yada yada here we go again... and before you start... $25,000 paycut doesn't even BEGIN to get where it needs to be IMO. So just going on believing that this system works, and I will eventually help to tear it down, if for nothing else to send you a message.
Incorrect. Prater was at a C 20 LEC meeting a few months ago. You do have to invite them, and they did.
As for pay T, not going to argue that change needs to come, but expecting it overnight is not going to happen.
10-26-2010, 07:23 PM
#1659
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
It better be an issue and so should a lot of other things that have yet to be firmed up or disclosed. Currently guys are signing on to an idea with no direction.
10-26-2010, 08:22 PM
#1660
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
I have the pleasure of flying with some of the brightest people in the biz here at Delta and I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that these same people could run a top-notch union. I have faith in us which is why I support DPA. It is you and me without the baggage of a conflicted bloated national organization. We will be the ones to chart our own direction without outside influence.
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