Delta Pilots Association
10-20-2010, 07:10 AM
#1482
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: No to large RJs
Posts: 369
Well, Carl, your post said "coast to coast" turns. Now I know DTW is on the shore of Lake St. Clair, but that is not what people think of as coast to coast. Look, if you ever come back to a domestic aircraft you would not have to worry about doing day turns from DTW to SFO/LAX/SEA/PDX, etc. They wouldn't make it past the top 10% of the category list.
So you admit that you have no scientific data to back up your rantings and your personal attacks are nothing more than a cover for your lack of knowledge. At least we now know where you are coming from. Pretty much standard Carl.
So you admit that you have no scientific data to back up your rantings and your personal attacks are nothing more than a cover for your lack of knowledge. At least we now know where you are coming from. Pretty much standard Carl.
Where is your scientific evidence that flying 10 flight hours extendable to a 15 hour duty day is more safe than flying 8 in 15 or say 8 in 16 for whitlow? This is nothing more than a horse trade and our union is smack right in the middle of it. ALPA is part of the problem.
10-20-2010, 07:11 AM
#1483
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I recall talking to a few reps that said if pay, scope, or working conditions were greatly altered that it would go to MEMRAT.
As for MEMRAT of LOA's, we can get that, but we would probably have about 20% of the group vote on them. It is a great idea, but first the pilot group as a whole needs to be willing to vote on em. Heck most people do not know that Military Charters can be assigned to reserves now.
10-20-2010, 07:39 AM
#1484
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
I think Carl has a valid point. You say JFK-LAX to support your argument, when that is in the minority since it goes over 10 hours. The majority of east-west trips could be done as a turn with the new NPRM and you know these are the trips Carl is referring too. You are right in the fact that the top 10 percent would do these trips. Look no further than our FAs. Who is more succeptable to the effects of a 10 hour flight day...the old pilots who will be bidding them. But wait, wasn't this all about improving safety?
Where is your scientific evidence that flying 10 flight hours extendable to a 15 hour duty day is more safe than flying 8 in 15 or say 8 in 16 for whitlow? This is nothing more than a horse trade and our union is smack right in the middle of it. ALPA is part of the problem.
Where is your scientific evidence that flying 10 flight hours extendable to a 15 hour duty day is more safe than flying 8 in 15 or say 8 in 16 for whitlow? This is nothing more than a horse trade and our union is smack right in the middle of it. ALPA is part of the problem.
You listening alfaromeo? What am I thinking...of course you're not.
Carl
10-20-2010, 07:49 AM
#1485
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl is correct. It had been a few years since I read the by-laws and policy manual. Since then I have talked to the current and former reps and all of them laughed at the question of them selling scope without a MEMRAT vote. Even if it is up to the MEC Council Members, there is not way they are going to approve LOA like this and not send it to MEMRAT.
I recall talking to a few reps that said if pay, scope, or working conditions were greatly altered that it would go to MEMRAT.
As for MEMRAT of LOA's, we can get that, but we would probably have about 20% of the group vote on them. It is a great idea, but first the pilot group as a whole needs to be willing to vote on em. Heck most people do not know that Military Charters can be assigned to reserves now.
I recall talking to a few reps that said if pay, scope, or working conditions were greatly altered that it would go to MEMRAT.
As for MEMRAT of LOA's, we can get that, but we would probably have about 20% of the group vote on them. It is a great idea, but first the pilot group as a whole needs to be willing to vote on em. Heck most people do not know that Military Charters can be assigned to reserves now.
Yet another reason my DPA card is in.
Carl
10-20-2010, 08:03 AM
#1486
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Carl;
You make a point, they could go rouge and sell our soul, but that is hyperbole. I do not know one rep that is willing to even entertain the idea much less act upon it.
Now we have a resolution for you to bring to the LEC meeting.
Carl;
We have gotten in to the mud about issues and that is fine. I too have issues with a few things within ALPA. Do not take being Pro ALPA as me stating I am 100% satisfied with the way things are being run. My position is based on the fact that what needs fixing should be fixed within the confines of the current structure. I also know you do not feel that way.
Whatever LM is or isn't I think we all should wait and see what he does or does not do. If it is more of the same, it just solidifies your position. I do hope that ALPA has a whole realizes that we are stronger as a whole and not separate independent associations. From some of the decisions and actions at the BOD I do beleive that some of the angst is floating to the top. To what degree will be determined going forward.
You make a point, they could go rouge and sell our soul, but that is hyperbole. I do not know one rep that is willing to even entertain the idea much less act upon it.
Now we have a resolution for you to bring to the LEC meeting.
Carl;
We have gotten in to the mud about issues and that is fine. I too have issues with a few things within ALPA. Do not take being Pro ALPA as me stating I am 100% satisfied with the way things are being run. My position is based on the fact that what needs fixing should be fixed within the confines of the current structure. I also know you do not feel that way.
Whatever LM is or isn't I think we all should wait and see what he does or does not do. If it is more of the same, it just solidifies your position. I do hope that ALPA has a whole realizes that we are stronger as a whole and not separate independent associations. From some of the decisions and actions at the BOD I do beleive that some of the angst is floating to the top. To what degree will be determined going forward.
10-20-2010, 08:57 AM
#1487
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Retired, again...
Posts: 608
acl
Carl is correct. It had been a few years since I read the by-laws and policy manual. Since then I have talked to the current and former reps and all of them laughed at the question of them selling scope without a MEMRAT vote. Even if it is up to the MEC Council Members, there is not way they are going to approve LOA like this and not send it to MEMRAT.
I recall talking to a few reps that said if pay, scope, or working conditions were greatly altered that it would go to MEMRAT.
As for MEMRAT of LOA's, we can get that, but we would probably have about 20% of the group vote on them. It is a great idea, but first the pilot group as a whole needs to be willing to vote on em. Heck most people do not know that Military Charters can be assigned to reserves now.
I recall talking to a few reps that said if pay, scope, or working conditions were greatly altered that it would go to MEMRAT.
As for MEMRAT of LOA's, we can get that, but we would probably have about 20% of the group vote on them. It is a great idea, but first the pilot group as a whole needs to be willing to vote on em. Heck most people do not know that Military Charters can be assigned to reserves now.
10-20-2010, 10:05 AM
#1489
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 19,703
I think Carl has a valid point. You say JFK-LAX to support your argument, when that is in the minority since it goes over 10 hours. The majority of east-west trips could be done as a turn with the new NPRM and you know these are the trips Carl is referring too. You are right in the fact that the top 10 percent would do these trips. Look no further than our FAs. Who is more succeptable to the effects of a 10 hour flight day...the old pilots who will be bidding them. But wait, wasn't this all about improving safety?
Where is your scientific evidence that flying 10 flight hours extendable to a 15 hour duty day is more safe than flying 8 in 15 or say 8 in 16 for whitlow? This is nothing more than a horse trade and our union is smack right in the middle of it. ALPA is part of the problem.
Where is your scientific evidence that flying 10 flight hours extendable to a 15 hour duty day is more safe than flying 8 in 15 or say 8 in 16 for whitlow? This is nothing more than a horse trade and our union is smack right in the middle of it. ALPA is part of the problem.
Flying day turns in my body cycle was the most rested I have ever been as a airline pilot. Slept in my own bed every night. No disruptions, all nighters ect... Trying to run the safety flag up on the turns is not going to work. You will never have a more rested crew then one that is flying 2 turns a week compared to the standard 3 to 5 day trips. Lets not even through international into the mix.
10-20-2010, 10:10 AM
#1490
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Flying day turns in my body cycle was the most rested I have ever been as a airline pilot. Slept in my own bed every night. No disruptions, all nighters ect... Trying to run the safety flag up on the turns is not going to work. You will never have a more rested crew then one that is flying 2 turns a week compared to the standard 3 to 5 day trips. Lets not even through international into the mix.
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