Delta Pilots Association
10-19-2010, 09:37 AM
#1411
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Wow. Acl, I don't know when you were hired, and I guess it does not matter, but I am guessing after C2K and BK.
It boils down to this. Lets say UCAL obtains an A seat rate of $1.503 per hour/per seat at the 12 year level. I use this scenario since a vast majority of A's at DAL are 12yr and above.
Would you settle for less? Do you believe we are worth less than that, or, are we worth more than that? If they prevail and attain that rate, should we pattern bargain off that?
It boils down to this. Lets say UCAL obtains an A seat rate of $1.503 per hour/per seat at the 12 year level. I use this scenario since a vast majority of A's at DAL are 12yr and above.
Would you settle for less? Do you believe we are worth less than that, or, are we worth more than that? If they prevail and attain that rate, should we pattern bargain off that?
As for what I am worth? I am worth a lot more than I am making, as are you. We get what we negotiate. At a min given the stuff we deal with, resotration does not come close to what we are worth. If the business can sustain that they lets do it. We are not at the point yet.
I have voted No and will do so if there is something in the agreement that is a step back. Pay, scope, work rules etc.
No it does not matter when I was hired. I want the diminishing returns to stop, I want what people like DAL88 want, but I also do not want to get it only to have it stripped from us. I want the exact number that is sustainable and not a penny less.
I do not think at this point we can determine what that is. Later next year when the company has strung together six or seven quarters of profitability, I beleive that we will be in a position to make a proposal that is commensurate with what some state is a min level for our opener.
10-19-2010, 09:48 AM
#1412
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
10-19-2010, 09:54 AM
#1414
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
No idea. If the company was making money or could afford more, I would have no issue with voting something down. If UCAL gets that I am sure we will be able to do better.
As for what I am worth? I am worth a lot more than I am making, as are you. We get what we negotiate. At a min given the stuff we deal with, resotration does not come close to what we are worth. If the business can sustain that they lets do it. We are not at the point yet.
I have voted No and will do so if there is something in the agreement that is a step back. Pay, scope, work rules etc.
No it does not matter when I was hired. I want the diminishing returns to stop, I want what people like DAL88 want, but I also do not want to get it only to have it stripped from us. I want the exact number that is sustainable and not a penny less.
I do not think at this point we can determine what that is. Later next year when the company has strung together six or seven quarters of profitability, I beleive that we will be in a position to make a proposal that is commensurate with what some state is a min level for our opener.
As for what I am worth? I am worth a lot more than I am making, as are you. We get what we negotiate. At a min given the stuff we deal with, resotration does not come close to what we are worth. If the business can sustain that they lets do it. We are not at the point yet.
I have voted No and will do so if there is something in the agreement that is a step back. Pay, scope, work rules etc.
No it does not matter when I was hired. I want the diminishing returns to stop, I want what people like DAL88 want, but I also do not want to get it only to have it stripped from us. I want the exact number that is sustainable and not a penny less.
I do not think at this point we can determine what that is. Later next year when the company has strung together six or seven quarters of profitability, I beleive that we will be in a position to make a proposal that is commensurate with what some state is a min level for our opener.
I am also of the opinion that we should have sustainable wages.
Is that Restoration? SWA+? I don't know. I am not a negotiator nor am I a cpa or financial analyst. I am a professional pilot that is providing for my families well being. That is my business. I am not in the business of bailing the company out longer than it is needed.
We also need to recognize that we should be a fixed cost to the bottom line, not a cash machine to go to when the crisis du jour comes around.
10-19-2010, 09:59 AM
#1415
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
T;
We have had two good quarters including what the earnings will be tomorrow. We still have 14 billion and debt. If we can continue to pay down our debt at the current rate, and continue to show quarters that have margins in the 7-8% range (at a min), yep, we can expect to see more money offered off the bat. (Can only help us and not hurt us)
What happens next year is anyone's guess. In 2009 we projected a billion dollar profit in late 2008, and then lost a ton. Anything is possible.
The guidance tomorrow will be important for us to look at. DAL should have a decent year next year. If we keep doing the right thing DAL should be in a very good position going in to 2012. It is If, if, if.
Like I said, if DAL is making money for a six consecutive quarters it will bode well for us. Add to it a UCAL contract and maybe an AMR contract that improves on our current book, we can then expect the floor to continually move up. In the end a lot needs to happen between now and the time we forumulate our opener. Surveys will go out shortly and then we will have a really good idea what our group wants and what they are willing to do to get it.
Resolve and unity are important. If we have those, it can only help and not hurt.
We have had two good quarters including what the earnings will be tomorrow. We still have 14 billion and debt. If we can continue to pay down our debt at the current rate, and continue to show quarters that have margins in the 7-8% range (at a min), yep, we can expect to see more money offered off the bat. (Can only help us and not hurt us)
What happens next year is anyone's guess. In 2009 we projected a billion dollar profit in late 2008, and then lost a ton. Anything is possible.
The guidance tomorrow will be important for us to look at. DAL should have a decent year next year. If we keep doing the right thing DAL should be in a very good position going in to 2012. It is If, if, if.
Like I said, if DAL is making money for a six consecutive quarters it will bode well for us. Add to it a UCAL contract and maybe an AMR contract that improves on our current book, we can then expect the floor to continually move up. In the end a lot needs to happen between now and the time we forumulate our opener. Surveys will go out shortly and then we will have a really good idea what our group wants and what they are willing to do to get it.
Resolve and unity are important. If we have those, it can only help and not hurt.
10-19-2010, 10:14 AM
#1416
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: 320B
Posts: 278
Everytime there is a merger at Delta there is a effort to vote in a new union. The last effort was heavily backed behind the scenes by the company and 4th floor. I heard the same about this time. Even had a few specific names mentioned that are involved. This is all a huge management wet dream. They are loving every moment of it!
Sailing
I do not know the the face of DPA, TC, other then then he is former NWA pilot who was very vocal on the old NWA boards. From what he said on the boards and his logbook write up campaign, he is no friend of management.
I have not yet sent in a DPA card nor have I decided yes or no. But when I keep hearing these kind of arguments about management involvement it makes me think ALPA is starting to run scared.
10-19-2010, 10:29 AM
#1417
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
I really understand what you are saying.
I am also of the opinion that we should have sustainable wages.
Is that Restoration? SWA+? I don't know. I am not a negotiator nor am I a cpa or financial analyst. I am a professional pilot that is providing for my families well being. That is my business. I am not in the business of bailing the company out longer than it is needed.
We also need to recognize that we should be a fixed cost to the bottom line, not a cash machine to go to when the crisis du jour comes around.
I am also of the opinion that we should have sustainable wages.
Is that Restoration? SWA+? I don't know. I am not a negotiator nor am I a cpa or financial analyst. I am a professional pilot that is providing for my families well being. That is my business. I am not in the business of bailing the company out longer than it is needed.
We also need to recognize that we should be a fixed cost to the bottom line, not a cash machine to go to when the crisis du jour comes around.
Trust me, I agree that we should be bailing anyone out. We should have agreed to snap backs on the wage concession, and we didn't. Now we have to do it the old fashion way. That means exactly what I stated before.
10-19-2010, 10:46 AM
#1418
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,503
This. This is where the MEC of DALPA, ALPA nationals inbred experts, and our crack negotiating team failed us.
Solutions for the next round anyone?
10-19-2010, 10:47 AM
#1419
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: window seat
Posts: 12,544
Exactly. I was being sarcastic, but technically to get 100% "restoration" that would theoretically have to be a part of it. Of course that is unobtainable and even undesireable because we'd be back at the mercey of not only management but an extremely volitile market. Like it or not, DC (or B) plans are the way to go...the main issue now is the percentage. We will soon have I think 14%. That is good by CH.11 emergency survival contracts, but I think everyone knows we will have to improve on it at least a bit.
10-19-2010, 10:55 AM
#1420
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
T;
We have had two good quarters including what the earnings will be tomorrow. We still have 14 billion and debt. If we can continue to pay down our debt at the current rate, and continue to show quarters that have margins in the 7-8% range (at a min), yep, we can expect to see more money offered off the bat. (Can only help us and not hurt us)
What happens next year is anyone's guess. In 2009 we projected a billion dollar profit in late 2008, and then lost a ton. Anything is possible.
The guidance tomorrow will be important for us to look at. DAL should have a decent year next year. If we keep doing the right thing DAL should be in a very good position going in to 2012. It is If, if, if.
Like I said, if DAL is making money for a six consecutive quarters it will bode well for us. Add to it a UCAL contract and maybe an AMR contract that improves on our current book, we can then expect the floor to continually move up. In the end a lot needs to happen between now and the time we forumulate our opener. Surveys will go out shortly and then we will have a really good idea what our group wants and what they are willing to do to get it.
Resolve and unity are important. If we have those, it can only help and not hurt.
We have had two good quarters including what the earnings will be tomorrow. We still have 14 billion and debt. If we can continue to pay down our debt at the current rate, and continue to show quarters that have margins in the 7-8% range (at a min), yep, we can expect to see more money offered off the bat. (Can only help us and not hurt us)
What happens next year is anyone's guess. In 2009 we projected a billion dollar profit in late 2008, and then lost a ton. Anything is possible.
The guidance tomorrow will be important for us to look at. DAL should have a decent year next year. If we keep doing the right thing DAL should be in a very good position going in to 2012. It is If, if, if.
Like I said, if DAL is making money for a six consecutive quarters it will bode well for us. Add to it a UCAL contract and maybe an AMR contract that improves on our current book, we can then expect the floor to continually move up. In the end a lot needs to happen between now and the time we forumulate our opener. Surveys will go out shortly and then we will have a really good idea what our group wants and what they are willing to do to get it.
Resolve and unity are important. If we have those, it can only help and not hurt.
Wager: The surveys will be a complete waste of time. They will be worded so as to manage the group... again...
You talk of resolve and unity, but you know well where this is headed. And after the surveys come out and everybody is saying "It's my money, and I need it NOW!" are you gonna tell them to go call JG Wentworth? Or are you gonna start with the..."well, the company has 14 billion in debt, so don't get your hopes up" mantra. When does this end? I think the time is past where the Harvard MBAs need to start earning their millions, and start paying out on the promises that were made. JMO. And I think the time is past where our expectations keep getting managed downward. I know where you stand.
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