tsquare

That's great! I have another one for you too. Back in the 80s a mathemetician (John Allen Paulos) wrote a book called 'Innumeracy' in which he explains how clueless most people are when it comes to big numbers. He says that you need to put those numbers into a comprehendable form. So.... look at your watch for 1 million seconds and it will take about 11 days, but a billion seconds takes over 33 years! Now 1 trillion seconds would take 33,000 years so it once again becomes incomprehendable. Interesting stuff to be sure, and I have been thinking about sending a copy of that book to the idiots in DC. But wait, they can't read anything until after they vote on it.. right?

slowplay

Really?

From usapa:

"With regard to the CAPA election, President Cleary reported that USAPA’s entire CAPA contingent was very disappointed at the election of the new CAPA President for a variety of reasons. Although we will work to find positive solutions to this problem, USAPA pilots should know that the magnitude of the problem has caused an evaluation that our resources may be better spent elsewhere than CAPA."

Seems you have a gift for understatement when discussing your own house, and you revell in tearing down other people's houses. Nice work for a Teamster's troll and whiny Atlas guy, but not unexpected.

dckozak

Thank you. At least when you get my opinions you get a petty girl to look at, not some 20 years ago sitcom Colonel.

I'm guessing you think I should stay over in the cargo section with the rest of the freight dogs. I think we all have an interest in what you'all do regarding going independent.

First off. I'm not defending the issues regarding costs and staff at ALPA national. If your "threat" to leave ALPA causes National to make reforms that affect how and who they represent and at what costs, that improve all of us. Well than, beers on me when we meet on the road.

On the other hand, I think the underlying argument for leaving ALPA and going independent (in much of this thread) fails to understand the true value of working as an Association of airline pilots rather than just a collect of individual shops.

As an association of unions, we have many more common interests than differences. Those issues can only be solved at a political level. ALPA national is a political force only as strong as the numbers it represents. Safety, flight and duty times, cabotage, and others are only part of the political issues we all need to confront with a government which doesn't always see our interests as thiers. The greater industry of airlines has the ATA to lobby on their behalf and I'm sure they too have their internal differences but they find a way to work for changes that improves the industry as they see fit (often at the expense of labor).

You are deluding yourselves if you think each of our inhouse unions can have a fraction of the influence that we all together can/would have. As it is, we at fractured by the number of pilot groups that are currently independent. APA, SWPA, UPSA, the COPA, all lack the clout working alone that could be harnessed if we all were together.

I'm not making a case for MEGA ALPA , just pointing out what we all collectively loose by going our own way.

If you feel ALPA is broken, than help to fix it. going your own way will only weaken the cause we all have a vested interest in, improving the health, wealth and quality of Airline pilots in (north) America.

acl65pilot

+1
Great post.

Carl Spackler

That's right: "We need to pass this historic legislation...so we can find out what's in it." - Nancy Pelosi

Carl

tsquare

Except that it is unfixable.

Carl Spackler

While it will be difficult to respond coherently given that avatar of yours, I will try :

The problem with what you've written is the RESULTS of this political action and lobbying. We are slowly losing on Cabotage, and the Flight time duty time proposal represents a total capitulation in my view. Sully Sullenberger said it best in his response to the FAA: "You do not improve fatigue by having pilots work MORE hours." Now we have ALPA capitulating on the 1500 hour rule...after they promised they would strongly back it.

ALPA's mission statement regarding legislative activity sounds great. But the results are a dismal failure and worse, they represent outright lies to the membership. In my business, I measure results through carefully developed metrics. Nobody gets to say something or promise something, and not deliver - or they will be fired. I think ALPA is about to be fired for the exact same reasons.

Carl

alfaromeo

Is this where we talk about going to war with Iraq to find all those WMD? Oh and then screwing up the entire thing? If we are going to degenerate into political discussions here then at least lets have some balance.

dckozak

Carl,
I took a glance at the NPRM regarding the changes in flight a duty time. It is a long document which I'm sure you are familiar with. I was troubled by the FAA's need (possibly by regulation) to have to put a monetary value on the changes (as proposed) but otherwise baffled by your hostility to these proposed changes.

I'm sure it's hashed out elsewhere on this BB, but the only hour increase I see proposed in flight time is to 9 hours for duty started in base between 0700 and 1300. Most of the day staying at 8, some critical limited to 7 hours.
I don't know about you, I don't fly much "day" but when I do, I'm a lot more chipper with the sun out than between 2300 and 0700 when much of (my) domestic flying is done. If this a giveaway as you profess, I need the improvements associated with this giveaway and don't see "day guys" losing much if anything in the way of increasing fatigue.

As for ALPA "capitulation " on the newhire 1500 hour proposal, someone send me a link where ALPA is saying that 500 hours is okay.

Maybe this is a case where us "freight dogs" see things differently, maybe I'd better retreat to the Cargo forum where backside of the clock flying is understood.

TANSTAAFL

I guarantee you RA, the ATA, and others managements would love to see DAL or UAL, CAL go independent. Divide and conquer, and we do it to ourselves.......