Pineapple Guy

THAT'S the best you can come up with? GMAB! ALPA pay/benefits exceed each of your "star" unions for 20-30 years, and only fall behind due to bankruptcy, and you blame ALPA? ALL of ALPA's "recent history" was under the 1113c hammer; whereas these other unions VOLUNTEERED to undercut ALPA carriers for YEARS.

Funny, you blame RJ pilots for undercutting the majors, but hold up these guys as heros for doing the same, just because they happen to be ahead at the moment. You've been in the industry a LONG time Carl; how many of those years did your peers at LUV, AMR, or UPS make more than you?

patfarra

Make sure everyone send their cards in. It sure seems like support is growing for the new union.

Carl Spackler

I don't think any of us do this lightly, but the evidence that ALPA will not change is becoming just overwhelming.

Carl

Carl Spackler

1. Does ALPA represent those pilots from the wet lease companies?
2. Does ALPA tell you that wet lease is good for FedEx?
3. Does ALPA tell you that if it's good for FedEx, ultimately it will be good for you?

Carl

Carl Spackler

Interesting. You think he ignored the majors to get elected? I agree with you that he did...I'm just surprised to hear you admit it. I think he will continue to ignore scope because he believes RJ's are good for the major airlines. He's perfect for this job because he truly believes in the RJ strategy.

I don't think ALPA will survive much longer in its current form. I think UAL/CAL will leave as will DAL. That will make ALPA the regional airline union. I think Lee knows this too.

ALPA won't disintegrate. Lee will preside over a union that represents the fast growing regionals, LCC's and Ultra LCC's. There will probably be ties to the international airlines which will make Lee strongly support cabotage and foreign ownership. That's my bet.

Serious question: If this doesn't happen and my scenario happens instead, will you still support Lee and ALPA national?

Carl

Carl Spackler

As usual, you set up straw man arguments so you can look tough knocking them down. It was one of you ALPA apologists that were saying that all members of the independent unions are unhappy and wish they could come back to ALPA. I disagree. The facts prove that.

That's the subject dude. Care to respond to the actual subject?

Carl

Carl Spackler

Really? I wasn't at DAL back then, so I don't know. But I thought the initial huge reduction from the C2K peak was done outside of bankruptcy and the 1113C process.

Can someone without an axe to grind respond to me on this...because I truly don't know.

Carl

Pineapple Guy

Carl, not sure how you jumped to that conclusion. I do NOT think he ignored the majors to get elected. As for scope, that's no longer his job. As ALPA National president he is to represent ALL ALPA pilots, and I'm confident he'll do that.


I'll take that bet. What would you like to wager?

Which scenario? If Lee supports cabotage, NO I will not support him. If he supports foreign ownership, NO I will not support him.

Pineapple Guy

Actually that is true; thanks to the Administration before Lee. But we were on the brink of bankruptcy and that was one last Hail Mary, in an attempt to avoid BK as we knew the pension would be gone, if we went into BK. It didn't work, but it was worth the try, imo.

BTW, your hero APA, never saw anything anywhere near C2K, and was the first to offer concessions post 9/11. As with their introduction of the B-scale, they started another round of concessionary pattern bargaining. At least they were a leader at something!

Carl Spackler

Not sure how I came to that conclusion? Read again what you wrote below:

It was probably a freudian slip on your part, but your addition of "now that he got elected" made it sound like he had to do one thing before he got elected, and now he'll do something different since he got elected.

Your DPA card. What I've stated will be promoted by Lee within 3 years. If I'm wrong, I'll rescind my DPA card.

Carl