Delta Pilots Association
10-17-2010, 05:39 AM
#1251
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
I agree there are problems with national. I agree there are problems with the dues structure. Having said that, as acl states, ALPA has more good than bad. And it is fixable.
Gee, good idea. Why don't we let the US population vote on the compensation of the US President? Better yet, perhaps we should let our passengers vote on the salary of the cockpit crew? Would that be a good idea too?
Gee, good idea. Why don't we let the US population vote on the compensation of the US President? Better yet, perhaps we should let our passengers vote on the salary of the cockpit crew? Would that be a good idea too?
My suggestion was sarcastic to drive home a point. the president's compensation is insulated from the proletariat. Nothing will change, and you are naive, delusional and entrenched is the same system if you think this can be fixed. And it has nothing to do with DPA...
10-17-2010, 06:29 AM
#1253
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
This is why you are so clearly lacking in credibility. SWA, UPS and even APA would clearly disagree with you. They could get back in to ALPA in a nanosecond if they wanted to. They don't. Only you could see these successful unions as an idea that hasn't worked.
Carl
Carl
SWAPA has been in existence since the 70's. It's record is marked by undercutting ALPA wages (60-70% of industry standard) until its most recent contract. Today, it's industry leading passenger wage rate is approximately 80% of what ALPA represented Delta pilots were paid in 2004 for the same aircraft. They undercut your contract, and you want to use them as an example? How about we revisit in 2 years and see how they're doing after their AAI merger.
IPA has been in existence since 1989. There record is marked by undercutting ALPA wages (80% of industry standard) until 2006, when through bankruptcies by major ALPA carriers whose wage rates fell behind they were able to secure a contract similar to ALPA represented FedEx. In a growing economy they have 230 pilot slated for furlough.
APA was spun off from ALPA in the early 1960's. APA made the "B"-scale that you claim to abhor an industry reality. They damaged labor credibility with a "strike" in 1997 that was immediately shut down to protect them from themselves (AMR's Flight Attendants did a much better job in 1994). They were enjoined by the courts due to illegal concerted activity and had to negotiate away a $45 million fine. They were the first to the concession stand in 2003, undercutting current ALPA wages by as much as 40%.
We can get into a whole lot more detail about these "successes" if you'd like. I'll point back to the actual FedEx experience, the actual IACP experience, and the NPA experience. You can keep pointing to unions that have benefitted their membership solely by undercutting yours.
10-17-2010, 06:32 AM
#1254
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Dismayed
Posts: 1,598
10-17-2010, 06:34 AM
#1255
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
10-17-2010, 06:36 AM
#1257
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
OK, let's examine the actual record of the three unions you mention.
SWAPA has been in existence since the 70's. It's record is marked by undercutting ALPA wages (60-70% of industry standard) until its most recent contract. Today, it's industry leading passenger wage rate is approximately 80% of what ALPA represented Delta pilots were paid in 2004 for the same aircraft. They undercut your contract, and you want to use them as an example? How about we revisit in 2 years and see how they're doing after their AAI merger.
IPA has been in existence since 1989. There record is marked by undercutting ALPA wages (80% of industry standard) until 2006, when through bankruptcies by major ALPA carriers whose wage rates fell behind they were able to secure a contract similar to ALPA represented FedEx. In a growing economy they have 230 pilot slated for furlough.
APA was spun off from ALPA in the early 1960's. APA made the "B"-scale that you claim to abhor an industry reality. They damaged labor credibility with a "strike" in 1997 that was immediately shut down to protect them from themselves (AMR's Flight Attendants did a much better job in 1994). They were enjoined by the courts due to illegal concerted activity and had to negotiate away a $45 million fine. They were the first to the concession stand in 2003, undercutting current ALPA wages by as much as 40%.
We can get into a whole lot more detail about these "successes" if you'd like. I'll point back to the actual FedEx experience, the actual IACP experience, and the NPA experience. You can keep pointing to unions that have benefitted their membership soley by undercutting yours.
SWAPA has been in existence since the 70's. It's record is marked by undercutting ALPA wages (60-70% of industry standard) until its most recent contract. Today, it's industry leading passenger wage rate is approximately 80% of what ALPA represented Delta pilots were paid in 2004 for the same aircraft. They undercut your contract, and you want to use them as an example? How about we revisit in 2 years and see how they're doing after their AAI merger.
IPA has been in existence since 1989. There record is marked by undercutting ALPA wages (80% of industry standard) until 2006, when through bankruptcies by major ALPA carriers whose wage rates fell behind they were able to secure a contract similar to ALPA represented FedEx. In a growing economy they have 230 pilot slated for furlough.
APA was spun off from ALPA in the early 1960's. APA made the "B"-scale that you claim to abhor an industry reality. They damaged labor credibility with a "strike" in 1997 that was immediately shut down to protect them from themselves (AMR's Flight Attendants did a much better job in 1994). They were enjoined by the courts due to illegal concerted activity and had to negotiate away a $45 million fine. They were the first to the concession stand in 2003, undercutting current ALPA wages by as much as 40%.
We can get into a whole lot more detail about these "successes" if you'd like. I'll point back to the actual FedEx experience, the actual IACP experience, and the NPA experience. You can keep pointing to unions that have benefitted their membership soley by undercutting yours.
Hmmmmmmm seems that my rate is 54% of what it once was... does that count? Oh, that's right, it could have been much much worse...
10-17-2010, 06:45 AM
#1258
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Posts: 2,539
btw, your rate as of 1/1/11 will be 68% of the highest wage rates ever paid (way higher than SWAPA, APA, and IACP rates), plus a guy in your seniority had over $200K in bankruptcy claims and 4000 shares of stock thrown in. Those wage rates will only lag the freight guys, LUV, and some of CAL's on specific equipment. They're higher than APA's, which never went bankrupt because they undercut you. Yeah, it could have been much worse.
10-17-2010, 06:53 AM
#1259
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
OK, let's examine the actual record of the three unions you mention.
SWAPA has been in existence since the 70's. It's record is marked by undercutting ALPA wages (60-70% of industry standard) until its most recent contract. Today, it's industry leading passenger wage rate is approximately 80% of what ALPA represented Delta pilots were paid in 2004 for the same aircraft. They undercut your contract, and you want to use them as an example? How about we revisit in 2 years and see how they're doing after their AAI merger.
IPA has been in existence since 1989. There record is marked by undercutting ALPA wages (80% of industry standard) until 2006, when through bankruptcies by major ALPA carriers whose wage rates fell behind they were able to secure a contract similar to ALPA represented FedEx. In a growing economy they have 230 pilot slated for furlough.
APA was spun off from ALPA in the early 1960's. APA made the "B"-scale that you claim to abhor an industry reality. They damaged labor credibility with a "strike" in 1997 that was immediately shut down to protect them from themselves (AMR's Flight Attendants did a much better job in 1994). They were enjoined by the courts due to illegal concerted activity and had to negotiate away a $45 million fine. They were the first to the concession stand in 2003, undercutting current ALPA wages by as much as 40%.
We can get into a whole lot more detail about these "successes" if you'd like. I'll point back to the actual FedEx experience, the actual IACP experience, and the NPA experience. You can keep pointing to unions that have benefitted their membership solely by undercutting yours.
SWAPA has been in existence since the 70's. It's record is marked by undercutting ALPA wages (60-70% of industry standard) until its most recent contract. Today, it's industry leading passenger wage rate is approximately 80% of what ALPA represented Delta pilots were paid in 2004 for the same aircraft. They undercut your contract, and you want to use them as an example? How about we revisit in 2 years and see how they're doing after their AAI merger.
IPA has been in existence since 1989. There record is marked by undercutting ALPA wages (80% of industry standard) until 2006, when through bankruptcies by major ALPA carriers whose wage rates fell behind they were able to secure a contract similar to ALPA represented FedEx. In a growing economy they have 230 pilot slated for furlough.
APA was spun off from ALPA in the early 1960's. APA made the "B"-scale that you claim to abhor an industry reality. They damaged labor credibility with a "strike" in 1997 that was immediately shut down to protect them from themselves (AMR's Flight Attendants did a much better job in 1994). They were enjoined by the courts due to illegal concerted activity and had to negotiate away a $45 million fine. They were the first to the concession stand in 2003, undercutting current ALPA wages by as much as 40%.
We can get into a whole lot more detail about these "successes" if you'd like. I'll point back to the actual FedEx experience, the actual IACP experience, and the NPA experience. You can keep pointing to unions that have benefitted their membership solely by undercutting yours.
With regard to your opinion of these other unions being a success, it is just your opinion. And like my opinion, is meaningless. The definition of success resides within THEIR members...not us. And THEIR members continue to affirm their membership in those unions. And as such continue to affirm that they want NOTHING to do with ALPA.
Carl
10-17-2010, 07:09 AM
#1260
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Legacy FO
Posts: 4,105
Interesting interjection to this thread. I was reading the SWA has a new TA thread regarding them getting 800s. I find it interesting that their union also negotiated profitibility pay raises into their TAs. Wish we were that forward thinking.
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