Delta Pilots Association
10-14-2010, 05:23 PM
#1152
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Military wasn't really an option for me- I was 6 weeks premature when I was born and ended up with 20/400 uncorrected distance vision. My senior year in college when I already had 1500 hours of flight time was when I found out that they were starting to accept PRK in the Air Force. I immediately jumped on it, but it was a 2 year wait before I could start pilot training after the surgery, then 2 years of pilot training and a 10 year commitment.
Carl
10-14-2010, 05:27 PM
#1153
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Maybe I misunderstand Carl's logic, and his attack is on the RJ pilot that actually tries to encourage the breakdown of scope. I despise the RJDC, Ford, Lawson, and everyone of their kind. I feel this way because the group of pilots I worked with at the regionals had only one aspiration: get to a major. Not pull the major's flying down to their crappy world, but to lift themselves out of the filth. I've NEVER heard anyone in my generation of regional pilots asking for bigger equipment, although I'm sure a few who made in the top of the seniority list (the page of shame) salivate over mainline equipment.
Outside of the RJDC, and similar efforts, I think it's wrong to criticize any RJ pilot for merely flying an RJ. The scope provisions inherited by...well, say, Carl's generation were theirs to loose. It was their job to maintain what could only be given up by them.
A guy coming up the system, provded he doesn't scab or break other union rules, or advocates for the deterioration of scope, is entitled to choose any legal path that is open to him. If that path to a major goes through a regional, it's because it has been opened by people that failed to keep it in-house, for whatever reason.
It is absolutely absurd for anyone that was handed an airline free of scope exceptions, and during their tenure failed to keep it that way, to lecture anyone that comes through the system he created with his own failures.
Outside of the RJDC, and similar efforts, I think it's wrong to criticize any RJ pilot for merely flying an RJ. The scope provisions inherited by...well, say, Carl's generation were theirs to loose. It was their job to maintain what could only be given up by them.
A guy coming up the system, provded he doesn't scab or break other union rules, or advocates for the deterioration of scope, is entitled to choose any legal path that is open to him. If that path to a major goes through a regional, it's because it has been opened by people that failed to keep it in-house, for whatever reason.
It is absolutely absurd for anyone that was handed an airline free of scope exceptions, and during their tenure failed to keep it that way, to lecture anyone that comes through the system he created with his own failures.
10-14-2010, 05:45 PM
#1154
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Carl
10-14-2010, 05:52 PM
#1155
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Of course it was an option. You just said so. You just didn't want to make the time commitment.
I just gave you my education on the subject. You've added an additional caveat of not wanting to wait for a 10+ year commitment, but that doesn't change what I believe is the best path for a civilian pilot to take.
I think why we're "getting into it so much" is because my opinion is contrary to the vast majority of the pilots on this forum. The vast majority are current or former RJ pilots. I rarely see anyone argue with the many posts from RJ guys that place all the blame for everything in their lives and careers on the major pilots that sold scope. My almost singular contrary opinion is the reason we're getting into it.
Carl
I just gave you my education on the subject. You've added an additional caveat of not wanting to wait for a 10+ year commitment, but that doesn't change what I believe is the best path for a civilian pilot to take.
I think why we're "getting into it so much" is because my opinion is contrary to the vast majority of the pilots on this forum. The vast majority are current or former RJ pilots. I rarely see anyone argue with the many posts from RJ guys that place all the blame for everything in their lives and careers on the major pilots that sold scope. My almost singular contrary opinion is the reason we're getting into it.
Carl
An option? Yes, technically. Viable? Not really.
10-14-2010, 05:55 PM
#1156
Back on TDY
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
It wasn't the 10 year committment- it was finding out that it might actually have been an option when I was already at the jumping off point after flying corporate and flight instrcuting and could get an aviation job that had quality flight time to get to my career goals. The thing that killed the deal was the 2 year wait after the surgery. I was already an RJ captain by the time that 2 years was up.
An option? Yes, technically. Viable? Not really.
An option? Yes, technically. Viable? Not really.
Carl
10-14-2010, 06:02 PM
#1157
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,462
Carl: its your fault
former RJ pilot #1: No, its YOUR fault!
Carl: No, Its YOUR FAULT!
former RJ pilot #2: No, ITS YOUR FAULT!!
Carl: NO, NO, NO. IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!!
former RJ pilot #3: NO!!!!!! IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!
OK - UNCLE! Can you guys start up a brand new thread, and quit clogging all the DAL threads? I'll even give you the title:
"SCOPE - IT'S YOUR FAULT!"
former RJ pilot #1: No, its YOUR fault!
Carl: No, Its YOUR FAULT!
former RJ pilot #2: No, ITS YOUR FAULT!!
Carl: NO, NO, NO. IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!!
former RJ pilot #3: NO!!!!!! IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!
OK - UNCLE! Can you guys start up a brand new thread, and quit clogging all the DAL threads? I'll even give you the title:
"SCOPE - IT'S YOUR FAULT!"
10-14-2010, 06:13 PM
#1158
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Posts: 5,113
Carl: its your fault
former RJ pilot #1: No, its YOUR fault!
Carl: No, Its YOUR FAULT!
former RJ pilot #2: No, ITS YOUR FAULT!!
Carl: NO, NO, NO. IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!!
former RJ pilot #3: NO!!!!!! IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!
OK - UNCLE! Can you guys start up a brand new thread, and quit clogging all the DAL threads? I'll even give you the title:
"SCOPE - IT'S YOUR FAULT!"
former RJ pilot #1: No, its YOUR fault!
Carl: No, Its YOUR FAULT!
former RJ pilot #2: No, ITS YOUR FAULT!!
Carl: NO, NO, NO. IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!!
former RJ pilot #3: NO!!!!!! IT'S YOUR FAULT!!!!!!!
OK - UNCLE! Can you guys start up a brand new thread, and quit clogging all the DAL threads? I'll even give you the title:
"SCOPE - IT'S YOUR FAULT!"
10-14-2010, 06:16 PM
#1159
At home on the maddog!
Joined APC: Mar 2009
Position: ATL MD-88A
Posts: 2,874
You do know that management had the right to merge the airlines and not even tell us about until we saw it on CNN? Right, you have read our contract and see the section where management is explicitly given the right to merge the carriers with no contractual changes from us? Please tell me that you have read that?
That is what happened when we merged with Western, that is what happened when NW merged with Republic, and that is what happened in all the other mergers so far. So the only leverage that we had in this merger is leverage that we created out of thin air. Management had the right to tell us to stay in our old contract, give us no stock, and then merge anyway. It would have slowed down the process, but it would have happened with us or without us. So it is pretty funny that you claim we passed up leverage when we totally created every ounce of our leverage from nothing.
That is what happened when we merged with Western, that is what happened when NW merged with Republic, and that is what happened in all the other mergers so far. So the only leverage that we had in this merger is leverage that we created out of thin air. Management had the right to tell us to stay in our old contract, give us no stock, and then merge anyway. It would have slowed down the process, but it would have happened with us or without us. So it is pretty funny that you claim we passed up leverage when we totally created every ounce of our leverage from nothing.
"Delta pilots are open to it, and we are going to be relevant to the process," he said. "We will be at the table. We will be involved. And without us, it will not happen." - From an article at TheStreet.com on 12/12/07
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