Leaving JBLU for SWA ?
08-24-2006, 10:47 AM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: C-172A, A320
Posts: 218
You assume much about SWA's possible international expansion. Me ? Who wrote this : "We should have our own international planes about that time, but it doesn't matter if we do or are still codesharing.
I predict SWA may use international codeshare like the legacies codeshare for regional service. Use the lowest, quality, bidder.”
How long do you really think A320's will be hot on the used market? Forever??
Who is sarcastic now - sorry I did not try to be sarcastic.
Again no need to get sarcastic, I certainly am not.
You made up your mind before you started this thread. Why did you start it then? Just trying bait us SWA types into a "trap"?
Not so, the decision is not made. Why are you SWA guys so sensitive?
Sorry, I still feel SWA is the better, more stable place to work.
You might be right, just don't get blinded by all the hurra patriotism.
There will be some real challenges for SWA in the future.
Higher wages are an issue in 2009 - do you think those wages will be kept?
Especially with a new fleet type at JetBlue. - Aviation Week called the addition of a 100 seater 'brilliant' . Something SWA should be looking into.
Again, I hope you do have a good career.
I hope you and my many friends there ,too.
I think there is room for SWA and JetBlue in this marketplace. I just think the SWA folks will have it better.
I predict SWA may use international codeshare like the legacies codeshare for regional service. Use the lowest, quality, bidder.”
How long do you really think A320's will be hot on the used market? Forever??
Who is sarcastic now - sorry I did not try to be sarcastic.
Again no need to get sarcastic, I certainly am not.
You made up your mind before you started this thread. Why did you start it then? Just trying bait us SWA types into a "trap"?
Not so, the decision is not made. Why are you SWA guys so sensitive?
Sorry, I still feel SWA is the better, more stable place to work.
You might be right, just don't get blinded by all the hurra patriotism.
There will be some real challenges for SWA in the future.
Higher wages are an issue in 2009 - do you think those wages will be kept?
Especially with a new fleet type at JetBlue. - Aviation Week called the addition of a 100 seater 'brilliant' . Something SWA should be looking into.
Again, I hope you do have a good career.
I hope you and my many friends there ,too.
I think there is room for SWA and JetBlue in this marketplace. I just think the SWA folks will have it better.
08-24-2006, 10:55 AM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: C-172A, A320
Posts: 218
I guess SWA did. But what is your point?
The questions is that why has the standard gone down? Why are the jets dirty now?
Looks like you guys are living of your previous glory, reminds me of the 'Triple Crown' winnings until 1996.
Again, the question is - what happened since then? Why has Southwest NOT won any awards since then?
Are the Glory Days over and are you guys just ticked off that JetBlue is the new, award winning, cool kid on the block?
The questions is that why has the standard gone down? Why are the jets dirty now?
Looks like you guys are living of your previous glory, reminds me of the 'Triple Crown' winnings until 1996.
Again, the question is - what happened since then? Why has Southwest NOT won any awards since then?
Are the Glory Days over and are you guys just ticked off that JetBlue is the new, award winning, cool kid on the block?
Last edited by Gman; 08-24-2006 at 04:59 PM.
08-24-2006, 01:21 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
The questions is that why has the standard gone down? Why are the jets dirty now?
Looks like you guys are living of your previous glory, reminds me of the 'Triple Crow' winnings until 1996.
Again, the question is - what happened since then? Why has Southwest NOT won any awards since then?
Are the Glory Days over and are you guys just ticked off that JetBlue is the new, award winning, cool kid on the block?
Looks like you guys are living of your previous glory, reminds me of the 'Triple Crow' winnings until 1996.
Again, the question is - what happened since then? Why has Southwest NOT won any awards since then?
Are the Glory Days over and are you guys just ticked off that JetBlue is the new, award winning, cool kid on the block?
Excellent point Gman....
08-24-2006, 01:23 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Posts: 1,857
08-24-2006, 02:52 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
I guess SWA did. But what is your point?
The questions is that why has the standard gone down? Why are the jets dirty now?
Looks like you guys are living of your previous glory, reminds me of the 'Triple Crow' winnings until 1996.
Again, the question is - what happened since then? Why has Southwest NOT won any awards since then?
Are the Glory Days over and are you guys just ticked off that JetBlue is the new, award winning, cool kid on the block?
The questions is that why has the standard gone down? Why are the jets dirty now?
Looks like you guys are living of your previous glory, reminds me of the 'Triple Crow' winnings until 1996.
Again, the question is - what happened since then? Why has Southwest NOT won any awards since then?
Are the Glory Days over and are you guys just ticked off that JetBlue is the new, award winning, cool kid on the block?
08-24-2006, 04:26 PM
#46
Need More Callouts
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Posts: 2,143
I guess SWA did. But what is your point?
The questions is that why has the standard gone down? Why are the jets dirty now?
Looks like you guys are living of your previous glory, reminds me of the 'Triple Crow' winnings until 1996.
Again, the question is - what happened since then? Why has Southwest NOT won any awards since then?
Are the Glory Days over and are you guys just ticked off that JetBlue is the new, award winning, cool kid on the block?
The questions is that why has the standard gone down? Why are the jets dirty now?
Looks like you guys are living of your previous glory, reminds me of the 'Triple Crow' winnings until 1996.
Again, the question is - what happened since then? Why has Southwest NOT won any awards since then?
Are the Glory Days over and are you guys just ticked off that JetBlue is the new, award winning, cool kid on the block?
*(Moron comment removed)
Last edited by 757Driver; 08-24-2006 at 05:29 PM.
08-24-2006, 05:13 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: C-172A, A320
Posts: 218
Do have anything other than insults to offer? Maybe answer my questions based on facts?
It took JetBlue 6 years to have 110 airplanes, award winning service and a loyal, almost fan-like customer base. I believe SWA was still flying around in circles (or triangle) in Texas in their 6th year.
Last edited by Gman; 08-24-2006 at 05:16 PM.
08-24-2006, 05:28 PM
#48
Need More Callouts
Joined APC: Dec 2005
Position: Unbridled Enthusiasm
Posts: 2,143
I see 757Driver - anybody who disagrees with you must be a moron.
Do have anything other than insults to offer? Maybe answer my questions based on facts?
It took JetBlue 6 years to have 110 airplanes, award winning service and a loyal, almost fan-like customer base. I believe SWA was still flying around in circles (or triangle) in Texas in their 6th year.
Do have anything other than insults to offer? Maybe answer my questions based on facts?
It took JetBlue 6 years to have 110 airplanes, award winning service and a loyal, almost fan-like customer base. I believe SWA was still flying around in circles (or triangle) in Texas in their 6th year.
Sorry about the "M" comment, it was as inappropriate as you attempting to diss Southwest. What I can offer you is some advice. Don't ever screw with an 800 lb guerilla. Jet Blow is a relative newcomer and as exciting as that is to you, your company still has a long way to go.
I'll remind you that SWA is STILL expanding as of this post and you folks are not. In fact you're cancelling aircraft orders and experiencing the growing pains that you previously thought you were immune to. Flash in the pan, maybe not, but you will never be a Southwest no matter how hard Mr. Neeleman tries.
I'd suggest a little humility at this point as you might need it when you're forced to apply at SWA in the not so distant future.
Good Luck my friend.
Last edited by 757Driver; 08-25-2006 at 06:05 AM.
08-24-2006, 08:03 PM
#49
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,931
Let's not go overboard with the JetBlue bashing.
JetBlue is still expanding, just not as much this year. Next year the selling or re-leasing of aircraft will likely stop. Even though you point out how JetBlue is "Better" I think the issue is still up for grabs due to the fact you started the thread.
IMHO, there are some judgment calls your friend is going to have to make in his/her decision between SWA and JetBlue.
1) What is the value of being the 800 lb. gorrilla with the best balance sheet? (This one is very important, I recommend really studying SWA's accounting in depth and know how they buy 35+ planes a year and continue to increase cash. It's not just hedges because taxes, profit sharing and stock options have to come out too.)
2) Will SWA's unions ask for too much money and choke the golden goose? (Look at how AA, UAL and DAL all seem to be pulling out of the dive. They started 2000 with good profits and tons of cash. They are still here in 2006 beaten but not near Ch 7. If SWA were to have troubles in 2009 (hedges get less helpful) it would also be years before they would really be in trouble. The worst thing that could happen at SWA is what happened at UAL, a cut to JetBlue wages. Can you really say JetBlue is assured of survival for the next 7-10 years at this point? Be honest.)
3) Is the EMB-190 really brilliant? If so, is the A-320 not so anymore? (USAir is getting the "brilliant" plane too. Lots of players are getting the EMB-170 "almost as brilliant" derivative. I personally think its trouble for JetBlue)
4) Will Boeing make a 787 derivative that shares a common type with the 737? (Many think so and SWA has the cash to buy them.)
5) Will Neeleman ever give you guys a pay cut to help pay for the "unforeseen" costs of 2 fleet types, debt service and more competitive rivals?
All in all, I think the hard part will not be adding up the benefits of either...The pain of the commute is already known and seems to not be a player...The issue will be a lurking fear of loss when the possible move gets close. Which may be now.
The pain and fear of voluntarily leaving a job you can NEVER go back to because you will have burned that bridge may be too much. I predict your friend will find every reason to stay at JetBlue and stay there.
Don't go thinking I'm arrogant about this, because I am not. If the time came to leave SWA I am forecasting I would have exactly this problem. As the 737 operators at CAL, DAL, and AA drive their costs down and ramp up to get cheap new-hires in the door (which CAL is already doing) I wonder what is in store for SWA. A CAL-DAL or UAL-CAL merger will change the landscape for the rest of us. The only reason I am not sweating, short term, is the huge debt hanging over them.
JetBlue is still expanding, just not as much this year. Next year the selling or re-leasing of aircraft will likely stop. Even though you point out how JetBlue is "Better" I think the issue is still up for grabs due to the fact you started the thread.
IMHO, there are some judgment calls your friend is going to have to make in his/her decision between SWA and JetBlue.
1) What is the value of being the 800 lb. gorrilla with the best balance sheet? (This one is very important, I recommend really studying SWA's accounting in depth and know how they buy 35+ planes a year and continue to increase cash. It's not just hedges because taxes, profit sharing and stock options have to come out too.)
2) Will SWA's unions ask for too much money and choke the golden goose? (Look at how AA, UAL and DAL all seem to be pulling out of the dive. They started 2000 with good profits and tons of cash. They are still here in 2006 beaten but not near Ch 7. If SWA were to have troubles in 2009 (hedges get less helpful) it would also be years before they would really be in trouble. The worst thing that could happen at SWA is what happened at UAL, a cut to JetBlue wages. Can you really say JetBlue is assured of survival for the next 7-10 years at this point? Be honest.)
3) Is the EMB-190 really brilliant? If so, is the A-320 not so anymore? (USAir is getting the "brilliant" plane too. Lots of players are getting the EMB-170 "almost as brilliant" derivative. I personally think its trouble for JetBlue)
4) Will Boeing make a 787 derivative that shares a common type with the 737? (Many think so and SWA has the cash to buy them.)
5) Will Neeleman ever give you guys a pay cut to help pay for the "unforeseen" costs of 2 fleet types, debt service and more competitive rivals?
All in all, I think the hard part will not be adding up the benefits of either...The pain of the commute is already known and seems to not be a player...The issue will be a lurking fear of loss when the possible move gets close. Which may be now.
The pain and fear of voluntarily leaving a job you can NEVER go back to because you will have burned that bridge may be too much. I predict your friend will find every reason to stay at JetBlue and stay there.
Don't go thinking I'm arrogant about this, because I am not. If the time came to leave SWA I am forecasting I would have exactly this problem. As the 737 operators at CAL, DAL, and AA drive their costs down and ramp up to get cheap new-hires in the door (which CAL is already doing) I wonder what is in store for SWA. A CAL-DAL or UAL-CAL merger will change the landscape for the rest of us. The only reason I am not sweating, short term, is the huge debt hanging over them.
Last edited by Gunter; 08-24-2006 at 08:17 PM.
08-24-2006, 08:40 PM
#50
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: WB Bunkie
Posts: 1,246
If you believe so strongly in JB, why did you start this thread in the first place?
Were you trying to stage a discussion?
Do you believe all the JB propoganda you're spreading but are still lured to SWA by their great reputation?
Alot of people have given some great insight and you don't seem that open to it
Were you trying to stage a discussion?
Do you believe all the JB propoganda you're spreading but are still lured to SWA by their great reputation?
Alot of people have given some great insight and you don't seem that open to it
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