alfaromeo

They have DELAYED the inevitable. That is at the cost of having the worst contract in the majors. They have sacrificed hundreds of millions of dollars in exchange for a pipe dream that they will lose in the end. Worst leadership ever.

LostInPA

Agree or disagree with USAPA, I have to give the East guys credit for outside of the box thinking. They didn't feel the Nicolau playing field was level, so they just moved to a different stadium for the game, so to speak.

A320fumes

I figured as much, and no offense meant. Most outside the situation don't understand exactly what happened over there. I was there, and went around 2,000 numbers jr to a guy hired 6 years after me. This was appropriate, as I was furloughed. The problem we, the East had with the Nic Windfall, was that a lot of guys who were not involuntarily furloughed also went jr to said 2005 AW hire. It's more complicated than it seems.

Check Essential

I agree with the first part.

"Worst leadership ever" is just not accurate though.
The USAir pilots decided they could not live with Nic. USAPA said we have a way.
They promised to fight the ALPA arbitration award and they have delivered.
We'll see how long they can stretch it out. So far, the courts are USAPA's best friend.
Trials, appeals, hearings, more appeals.
As long as they are willing to pay the lawyers, it could go on for years and years.
That's what lawyers do.

Its costing the pilots dearly, there is no doubt. But Nicolau remains "unbinding".

brakechatter

USAir decided that not only the Nic was unacceptable, but also became weary with ALPA. Much of their argument has been made on the Delta ALPA board as well. Overbloated staff, costs, and dues. They also tired of feeling left behind by the larger powers within ALPA, many of whom dropped the ball by talking about life after USAir "goes under".

That was the primary reason, right or wrong, for leaving ALPA.

LUV757, there are many threads on this, and there have been arguments there. Your facts are out there, you just have to go find them.

I'm out.

cactiboss

Funny, none of these guys have ever even read the award, the eas's position during arbitration was DOH or nothing. When warned by the arbitrator that they would not get DOH and to come up with a more realistic seniority proposal, the y responded that they were comfortable with a DOH only approach. You need to look no further than the union the east pilot's formed to see their character. Usapa's seniority list would furlough 83% of all west pilots before a single pre merger east pilot., only 11% of current west captains could hold a captain seat under said usapa list. A 1989 hire west captain with 21 years service would be junior to a 89 east hire who was furloughed and has only 8.3 years of service. The east boys saw a way to make up for their crappy career on the backs of the awa guys, they just make up whatever lies they have to to justify their despicable actions.

p.s. Let us not forget that the east walked away from negotiations in 2007 and when usapa returned to the table reopened every single section delaying any sort of contract purposely

ToiletDuck

That's the dumbest thing I've ever read. The whole point of an arbitrator is to be independent. You both agree to whatever his decision is then take it back after you see it. That's like going to vegas, putting your money on black, then when it hits red you reach out and pull your chips back.

Both sides took the same gamble going in. ANYONE arguing what an arbitrator decides is wrong. Call me old fashioned but if you agree to something you agree to it, no backing out. If RAH gets stapled by the arbitrator in it's current integration I might not like it at all but I'll suck it up and deal with it.

ToiletDuck

If they did that there wouldn't be West pilots at all.

A320fumes

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A320fumes

I assure you that I read the hollow Award. DOH was their position. A senile and obtuse Nicolau didn't like that they were steadfast and decided to punish them. Now the Nic award is the example of how not to arbitrate.

That would be the dumbest and most naive post of this thread. When you agree to binding arbitration, you do so with the expectation that the arbitrator will not become angry and vindictive when you have the audacity to stick to your guns. Nicolau's ego caused him to be heavy handed in his hollow award against the East. Had he just stayed with precedent and placed furloughed pilots below working pilots, his award would have floated. His award was meant to send the message "Don't ****-off the Arbitrator". The East countered with "Don't ****-off the pilots of USAirways". And it looks like the pilots of USAirways won. They don't appear to be willing to "Suck up" anything.

Not a hundred pilots of the pre-merger East or West has been furloughed. Where do you get this stuff?

USAirway is actually making money now, in PHL and CLT. I know they will continue their fight and hope they can divest itself of the West and send AW back to PHX and let them fend for themselves. One would think that the West would want the same now that it's apparent the Nic winfall is DEAD.