AA Recall Rumor
08-04-2010, 08:12 PM
#61
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 330 FO
Posts: 584
Really??
You pick one guy and hold that up as the norm?
What is the average W-2 for an EMB CA there?
How long has he/she been there, and how many hours did they have to work to get that?
Your hypothetical comparison would require you to compare a reserve EMB CA to a reserve MD80 CA. Or an EMB FO to a 777 FO.
Compare your 160k captain to a 777 captain who is busting his ass just as hard WRT to picking up trips and working the contract, then you have apples to apples.
Otherwise, you're just making yourself appear foolish.
08-05-2010, 08:52 AM
#63
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
What's interesting is that your Eagle brethren lobbied for the Supp W/Letter 3 provisions to END 2 years ago, which kicked all AA flowbacks out of RJ CA seats into FO seats & pay, then you STILL want the original benefits applied, but only to Eagle pilots, not AA flowbacks. If the Eagle pilots get HIRED by AA, shouldn't the AA flowbacks get CA seats back? Or is it all for YOU and nothing for THEM?
Thought so.
Thought so.
Actually, it was the APA who attempted to argue that all benefits to Eagle pilots end with agreement expiration. They liked it that if Eagle pilots were not "on property", they disappear. Of course, they also argued that all AA flowback WERE on Eagle property so they could keep their benefits after agreement expiration.
Typical.
They failed miserably, of course.
The arguments you attempt to explain, but in complete error are apples and oranges issues.
08-05-2010, 09:25 AM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: B-737
Posts: 392
This is in error.
Actually, it was the APA who attempted to argue that all benefits to Eagle pilots end with agreement expiration. They liked it that if Eagle pilots were not "on property", they disappear. Of course, they also argued that all AA flowback WERE on Eagle property so they could keep their benefits after agreement expiration.
Typical.
They failed miserably, of course.
The arguments you attempt to explain, but in complete error are apples and oranges issues.
Actually, it was the APA who attempted to argue that all benefits to Eagle pilots end with agreement expiration. They liked it that if Eagle pilots were not "on property", they disappear. Of course, they also argued that all AA flowback WERE on Eagle property so they could keep their benefits after agreement expiration.
Typical.
They failed miserably, of course.
The arguments you attempt to explain, but in complete error are apples and oranges issues.
Back to the subject; which in a way is thinly related to the above post. AMR realizes that they have a large seniority mess--regardless of who is at fault. The longer AMR waits to recall, the probability of dissatisfied and disgruntled pilots on furlough will return increases. I'm here to say that AMR has absolutely no interest in AE flow through, or seniority integration anymore.
I do think there will be some scope relaxation--especially if CAL--UAL caves on scope. For all the tough talk, the APA simply does not have the resources, political clout, or the will to stop it from happening. All AMR needs is 50% plus 1, and with enough money on the table, APA will cave.
Couple this with productivity gains (read that higher monthly maximum which is now at 78 hours), and the probability of recalls in any significant amount dwindles appreciably.
Sorry guys--we can argue all day long about who was hosed by whom, but in the end there will be no more flow through, and little if any any recalls for years to come. JMHO.
08-05-2010, 09:42 AM
#65
Where's my Mai Tai?
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Position: fins to the left, fins to the right
Posts: 1,754
Just pointing out the facts [edit: delete flamebait] not defending AA or B-scales at all, but if you guys want to launch flak our way with your lame attempts at justifying Supp W (or Letter 3 or whatever it's called over there), just realize it doesn't make much sense when your pilot group and MEC agreed to signing it in the first place. You sound a lot like the USAir Easties crying after they AGREED to neutral binding arbitration, then didn't like the result.
When you guys increase pay and working conditions up from rock bottom, then you can talk.
When you guys increase pay and working conditions up from rock bottom, then you can talk.
As far as the rest of your post, I didn't cite sup W/ letter 3 anywhere or say anything regarding it. You take one side, AE pilots take another, TWA guys have their outlook, and the arbitrator has his. Everyone is different. Doesn't mean they are all right or wrong, just grey.
So when you can get your pay and working conditions up, then you can talk to me. How's that?
Last edited by TonyWilliams; 08-05-2010 at 10:01 PM.
08-05-2010, 12:06 PM
#66
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 8,350
It never ceases to amaze me that a thread that began as AA recalls has morphed into something completely unrelated.
Back to the subject; which in a way is thinly related to the above post. AMR realizes that they have a large seniority mess--regardless of who is at fault. The longer AMR waits to recall, the probability of dissatisfied and disgruntled pilots on furlough will return increases. I'm here to say that AMR has absolutely no interest in AE flow through, or seniority integration anymore.
I do think there will be some scope relaxation--especially if CAL--UAL caves on scope. For all the tough talk, the APA simply does not have the resources, political clout, or the will to stop it from happening. All AMR needs is 50% plus 1, and with enough money on the table, APA will cave.
Couple this with productivity gains (read that higher monthly maximum which is now at 78 hours), and the probability of recalls in any significant amount dwindles appreciably.
Sorry guys--we can argue all day long about who was hosed by whom, but in the end there will be no more flow through, and little if any any recalls for years to come. JMHO.
Back to the subject; which in a way is thinly related to the above post. AMR realizes that they have a large seniority mess--regardless of who is at fault. The longer AMR waits to recall, the probability of dissatisfied and disgruntled pilots on furlough will return increases. I'm here to say that AMR has absolutely no interest in AE flow through, or seniority integration anymore.
I do think there will be some scope relaxation--especially if CAL--UAL caves on scope. For all the tough talk, the APA simply does not have the resources, political clout, or the will to stop it from happening. All AMR needs is 50% plus 1, and with enough money on the table, APA will cave.
Couple this with productivity gains (read that higher monthly maximum which is now at 78 hours), and the probability of recalls in any significant amount dwindles appreciably.
Sorry guys--we can argue all day long about who was hosed by whom, but in the end there will be no more flow through, and little if any any recalls for years to come. JMHO.
[edit: delete flamebait]
As to recalls at AA, no one will be able to predict this. This business can change overnight and unforseen events could have recalls begin very soon or perhaps not for years. No sense in getting worked up over it. When they do start, the order and protocol is known and whether liked or not, at least that won't be a mystery.
Last edited by TonyWilliams; 08-05-2010 at 10:00 PM.
08-05-2010, 03:51 PM
#67
AAmerican Way for AA Pay
Joined APC: Oct 2005
Position: B-737 Pilot
Posts: 1,617
It never ceases to amaze me that a thread that began as AA recalls has morphed into something completely unrelated.
Back to the subject; which in a way is thinly related to the above post. AMR realizes that they have a large seniority mess--regardless of who is at fault. The longer AMR waits to recall, the probability of dissatisfied and disgruntled pilots on furlough will return increases. I'm here to say that AMR has absolutely no interest in AE flow through, or seniority integration anymore.
Back to the subject; which in a way is thinly related to the above post. AMR realizes that they have a large seniority mess--regardless of who is at fault. The longer AMR waits to recall, the probability of dissatisfied and disgruntled pilots on furlough will return increases. I'm here to say that AMR has absolutely no interest in AE flow through, or seniority integration anymore.
AMR may have no interest in any of these issues---but they sure had a hand in creating these messes. They made up their bed---and now they have to sleep in it.
08-05-2010, 04:53 PM
#68
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2006
Position: B-737
Posts: 392
Because, everyone knows AA won't recall furloughees anytime soon, only 'hire' Eagle flow-thrus to cover any staff shortages----which there aren't. So, in essence, recalls are a joke---they aren't going to happen.
AMR may have no interest in any of these issues---but they sure had a hand in creating these messes. They made up their bed---and now they have to sleep in it.
AMR may have no interest in any of these issues---but they sure had a hand in creating these messes. They made up their bed---and now they have to sleep in it.
"The longer AMR waits to recall, the probability of dissatisfied and disgruntled pilots on furlough will return increases."
What I meant to say was:
"The longer AMR waits to recall, the probability of dissatisfied and disgruntled pilots on furlough will NOT return increases."
I'm in agreement with you, and I would go futher by saying AMR not only had a hand in these issues, they single handedly created them. I'm not sure the decision makers at AMR are sleeping in a bed of their making--I think it's us sleeping in that bed. They make a bed of thorns and we sleep in it--and then we argue among ourselves who will sleep on the bad side of the bed.
08-05-2010, 07:22 PM
#70
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Up Front
Posts: 286
Contracts don't "expire", they become "amendable". LOA's "expire".
EXTW
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