jc23

USMCFLYR,

If able, can you PM me? I don't meet the PM requirements. Thanks.

USMCFLYR

Sorry jc23 - but the PM feature works both ways. You can't PM, and people can't PM you, until the post count is reached (with quality posts too). It can be a pain but it keeps alot of spammers away.

USMCFLYR

jc23

USMCFLYR - Is there an appropriate and discrete method to address the Moderator(s) of APC that are available to registered folks with posts under 25? I didn’t have any luck looking under FAQ. Thanks.

USMCFLYR

I'm checking on different ways jc23. I'll get back to you.

USMCFLYR

asims33

Again, its not just me. If you look around there are others like me complaining about this as well.

To answer your first comment, I in no way shape or form regard myself as an "insider" and thus do not hold any amplified feelings caused by these terms because of who i know or what i have asked.

No one has given me a logical reason as to why degrading terms are used for low time pilots. I stick by my first analogy that no other professional industry treats their new comers like this.

I love how you quoted me making possibly my best point, and i still dont think anyone would ever be able to say that i am out of line when asking for respect. Im not cursing anyone or being unreasonable.

Throughout all of my posts here i have made it very clear that i agree that i nor other pilots near my hour number is ready for 121 ops, i dont know how else i can display a humble attitude other than acknowledging that i have more to learn before joining the 121 ranks. Just because i disagree with some veterans does not mean i lack a humble attitude. My stance on these ridiculous terms is not one regarding my humble attitude (or possible lack of one) but more of an attitude speaking out against something i see as wrong.

It has been compared to many different career industries to justify it, however while i agree a 1st year med graduate wont preform heart surgery he also wouldn't be degraded by colleagues if there were suddenly a shortage of heart surgeons and they had to use him.

For those who compare plumbers and construction workers, those are industries where i do not expect much professionalism from most of those working in it, and therefore when hear of a rookie plumber being ridiculed it wont surprise me.

Even though i agree with the higher time pilots in the ultimate argument about low time guys not being ready i do not agree with them in how they speak about the said pilots. If you wish to disagree with me thats fine, but none of you regardless of your hours or experience has any right to degrade any pilot without proper reason. 250 hour wonder is a gross generalized statement it is not directed at 1 or 2 guys but rather anyone who was hired at that hour mark, the bad ones and even the good ones. Its disrespectful and un needed and appears to me to be fueled by bitterness.

Corndawg88

asims33, I agree 100%. Most of the low time guys can agree low time pilots don't belong in the right seat of 121 planes. The thing only I'm finding interesting is how quickly some of these veteran pilots forget that they were where we are now, starving for time, money, and opportunities...

Globerunner513

It would seem a thick skin is quite the commodity...

asims33

So are logical replies, and most of all... professionalism.

NWA320pilot

Not to be a prick but when I was a low timer I worked my butt off to get time, money, and opportunities.

bcrosier

You need to go a bit further back than the last 2-3 years. When people weren't getting hired at a regional (then commuter) until they had 2500-4000 hours, there was no negative term for those newcomers - because they had the requisite experience to belong in that position. People with 300 hours getting hired into an airline seat are being derided because they simply shouldn't be there, regardless reasons which have enabled that circumstance.

Your analogy doesn't fit at all - in our case there are no shortage of "heart surgeons" (experienced airline pilots) - in fact there is a surplus. Again, as I pointed out, I'm guessing there would be a great hue and cry from the AMA and licensed doctors if hospitals suddenly found a way to employ first year med students as surgeons instead of paying the price to get someone with appropriate experience and certification.

If this were the darkest days of WW-II, and we needed all the pilots we could get yesterday, I don't think you would see the derision towards these people that you do. The simple fact is, we aren't, we don't, and those who understand what the appropriate background is and the costs to obtain it hold those who have taken a short cut in disdain.

Also, I must again point out to you the term "250 hour wonder" DOES NOT APPLY TO ALL LOW TIME PILOTS. As I have heard it used, it is applied specifically to those who have been hired on at an airline with substandard experience. I don't really understand your taking such offense to a label which doesn't even apply to you. Are you as upset when someone is branded a liar or a cheat because they made it through college by copying home work and cheating on exams?

Again, I ask you to go have the conversation with your physician relatives, and see if they would accept a flood of 1st year med students as surgeons - ask them if they would warmly accept them and regard them (in general) as colleagues, or would they resent them for cutting corners and taking a short cut that enhanced them personally, but damaged their profession as a whole.

Honest, I think your view on this is a bit Pollyanna-ish. Sorry, you're probably a great guy, but really don't understand how you can't comprehend this sentiment.