asims33

I disagree but i digress.


See you on the line someday.

DL31082

Over all I think this 1500 rule is a good thing. At one point I wanted to be one of those 250 hour wonders. The problem was after the CRJ course I thought I was a lot better then I really was at flying. Looking back, there was no way I was ready for the 121 cockpit, but I didn't realize it. It took flying with students, and them trying to kill me. Flying longer cross countries with nexrad and without, for me to realize that I was not ready. That being said I am more confident now at 1270hrs in my skills and knowledge then I ever was at 250 hours. One thing the older instructors here always say is it takes 3 things to make a good pilot. Skill, knowledge, and judgement. At 250 hours I might have had all three, but they were even close to the level that they are now.

bcrosier

Fair enough. Now, ask them how they would refer to a first year med student who thinks he is ready to be a heart surgeon. THAT would be a more apt comparison. The term "250 Hour Wonder refers to exactly that sort of hubris - not to low time pilots in general. Obviously we all were low time at some point, but not everyone thought (or currently thinks, as you demonstrate) they were ready to be in the right seat of an airliner at 250-300 hours.

Here we may be running into the inadequacies of the written word to communicate what we are trying to here. The problem with treating anyone with anything less than respect (yes, here we are at the crux of your point of discussion again) is that it tends to erect barriers to communication - which is the biggest hazard in the cockpit. Many accident reports reveal that at least one of the crew members had some pertinent information which wasn't shared or wasn't shared clearly due to breakdowns in communication.

"Making the FO work harder at his duties" really isn't appropriate in a line environment (this is part of what I mean when I say if you haven't been there, you don't really know. I can talk to friends who are Fire or EMS, but I know that until I've actually done their job I don't really grasp the inner workings of it). Training (both at the basic level and at the airline level) is the place to push someone and force them to "prove themselves" to some extent.

When on the line, the object is to remove barriers and lower the cross cockpit gradient of authority to enhance communication. Yes, the captain can pick who does what duties on what occasion. That said, unless circumstances really dictated otherwise, I let the FO decide what legs they flew, and things fell into place from there. Or for example - if the weather was nasty, I'd offer to do the walk around. Both 121 carriers I've worked at have very strong cultures of work together/play together. We get to the hotel, and the captain often buys the first round of drinks to get everyone out and socializing - it serves a very real purpose of team building and encouraging everyone to watch out for each other.

Having someone with inadequate experience in the opposite seat makes it much more difficult to lower those barriers to effective communication, as that person tends to naturally assume the much more experienced pilot knows what is going on (halo effect).

likeitis

I do have experience with almost all these professions. Have you ever been around a construction site? Have you heard plumbers, electricians, steamfitters or HVAC journeymen and apprentices talk to each other? Have you spent any time in a training university hospital? Trust me it's brutal. Ex. spouse worked in three of the top hospitals in the US's ORs and respect for the inexperienced is a rare trait.

You are upset about the term 250 hour wonders? I guess I don't see the insult. It's a term that was coined because many of these 250 hour wonders were complete boobs. If you asked most of them years later they would admit they were a danger to air navigation.

Grumble

250 hour wonder, hush up.

wrxpilot

Just try to keep this in mind:

We've all been in your shoes, so we understand (if not agree) with your position. But you have NOT been in our shoes, at least not yet.

I consider myself pretty lucky that I was able to get my first turbine F/O job when I had 800 hours. It was in a King Air C90 for a 135 charter company, and to me it felt like I landed a job in the space shuttle. It was awesome. But I had a lot to learn, and I will be the first to say that it was probably a good thing we weren't carting around 60+ pax in the back while I was trying to figure out *** I was doing.

USMCFLYR

Nope....I wouldn't touch the airlines with a ten foot pole
This forum has scared the beejeesus out of me even if I had ever thought of P121 flying!
Never wanted to fly for the airlines, have never applied to an airline, and more than likely (never say never) will I apply for an airline.

I'll leave that for you asmis and seriously - I wish you the best of luck getting that job you want - - - when you are ready.

USMCFLYR

JetPipeOverht

This only leads to a further contradiction in terms of you being a moderator at an Airline site...but you, sir, are not the issue...250 HR wonder pilots will NEVER happen again and the future will be championed by those who got in around 900-1500 hrs and sat right seat for 4 + years......

Zapata

asims33, your contrarian attitude to almost everyone with whom you are conversing should give you a clue. "I am not out of the line, everyone else is." Does that remind you of something?

I think that the reason your nerves has been struck are simple. You come across as thinking you're an insider just because you know someone that knows someone and you asked a lot of questions. More humble low time pilots don't feel insulted like you do because they aren't pretentious about where they stand. There is a reason for that. Think about it.

USMCFLYR

Sorry you feel that way JPO, but since other types of pilots are invited to the site then I guess they thought it was good to get other types of moderators too.
So....what you are saying is that if you are not an AIRLINE pilot then you are not worth having on this site?

With all the people on this site advising AGAINST getting into the airlines because it is a dead end career - I would think that you ought to be giving me a pat on the back.

USMCFLYR