Fishfreighter

You may add my vote to what these gentlemen have said. I'll take a CFI, a 135 freighter, etc. over your 250 hour newbie anyday. A 121 cockpit is a place where aviation professionals operate with the lives of innocent passengers in their hands.

Its not a place for teaching someone to fly.

wrxpilot

I'm curious... What's your background? How much flight instruction have you done? What are you currently flying?

Grumble

"Lets take a look at this verbal vomit, in this weeks breakdown!" Anyone?

#1 You're exactly right in one regard, 250 hour pilots have a right and an obligation to learn... but in no way should that learning take place with 90 paying passengers in the back. They paid for safe transportation from A to B by a qualified and competent crew, not by a Captain and his voice activated gear handle operator.

#2 Truely spoken by someone that has niether. Thanks for playing.There are two VERY different versions of "LOST" here. The 1500 hour pilot may be a little task saturated for the first 25 or 50 hours learning 121 operations as far as paperwork drills, routine operations, company procedures, etc. But he already knows how to fly, he's seen big/busy airports and airspace, and dealt with weather and desicion making. More than likely he brings something to the cockpit in the way of experience. A 250 hour pilot dosen't know a tit from TIT. Not only are they learning the operations side of things, but they probably can't fly their way out of a wet paper bag. Sure, they under stand how to read an enroute chart and navigate from A to B, but you throw an engine failure in there with a primary that's at mins and an alternate below mins, with severe weather in the area in a congested area like Atlanta... watch the melt down before your eyes.

#3 the Captain is there to command the ship. He is the ultimate authority on all matters concerning safety of flight and operations. His job is to MENTOR new pilots. Maybe show them techniques and motherhood along the way to make them smoother in the plane, more efficient, etc. They are NOT there to teach you how to fly.

bcrosier

Thank you all - this is what I've been harping on for some time now. Right seat of a CFR-121 aircraft is NOT the place to be learning the basics of flying.

asims33

Looks like ATP has already signed with Mountain State University to offer a degree program.

Flight training with ATP and your course work for your degree through Online Classes... Saw it coming

ATP Flight School: Aviation Degree - A.S. & B.S. in Airline Transport Professional Pilot Operations

asims33

Listen guys. I have went inactive on these forums a couple times over this i payed my dues and so should you crap.

Before people get angry at me let me lay some stuff out.

1) I do not believe that a 250 hour pilot is anywhere near ready to fly for the airlines.

2) I DO believe that CFI time is valuable and a 1000 hour CFI is probably ready for 121ops

3) I do not beleive that captains are in the airlines as teachers.

Now with all that laid out let me explain something.

You old birds who come on here and degrade low time pilots by calling them 250 hour wonders need to shut your mouths. If you have an issue with 250 hour guys being hired take it up with your Chief Pilots DO NOT come on forums or go to these guys and take it out on them that you have to fly with them.

Maybe i can make it more clear, If you had 250 hours right now and were offered a job flying for one of the regional s...would you take it? OF COURSE YOU WOULD. So what on earth do you hope to accomplish by arguing with these guys on these forums.

If these low time guys are ignorant enough to believe they are ready at 250 hours... Let them believe it, until they are in the cockpit next to you they arent hurting anything, and when or if they ever get in the cockpit next to you, you have every right as the captain to haze them and make them work hard.

But this is the most ridiculous forums on the entire web for pilots in regards to this argument i always see. These low time guys are in the same profession as you so show them some respect, not flying respect but respect you should be showing ANY person on this earth. And if some of you RJ captains get a gig flying mainline wait and see how this mentality shifts the other way. Think you are ready for 100,000 pounds?


Sorry had to get that off my chest. Flame away i expect these old guys to get mad that i fresh CFI 380 hours is telling them how it should be. I couldnt care less. And if im ever offered a job flying for regional im going to take it no matter what amount of hours i have simply because thats what im working hard to do.


Later

Rama

Thanks for telling us how it should be. Get back to us again when you have 5,000 and tell us how it should be then.

FlyJSH

"You old birds who come on here and degrade low time pilots by calling them 250 hour wonders need to shut your mouths. If you have an issue with 250 hour guys being hired take it up with your Chief Pilots DO NOT come on forums or go to these guys and take it out on them that you have to fly with them. "

Unfortunately, the Chief Pilot doesn't have the final word. In the end, it is the accountants that say a low time guy that will accept indentured servitude is adequate. People with a bunch of hours generally will not accept starvation wages.

TonyWilliams

Uh, what would 100,000 pounds have to do with anything? Only about 15,000 pounds heavier than the CRJ that I'm currently flying. The CRJ-1000 will have a max weight 91,800 lb (41,640 kg).

I think CRJ captains will be fine in a 100,000 airplane. Or a 1,000,000 pound one. Emirates is putting new hires into the A380, and some of those will likely come from a CRJ. I know several former CRJ guys who went straight into the B747 for cargo operators, and Boeing 757/767 for US cargo operators. One at my company from the CRJ to the A340, and one to the A330.

Systems and Avionics (glass cockpit) are compatible between a CRJ and any modern FMS glass cockpit aircraft. A more difficult (in my opinion) transition might be from a DC-9, or early B737-100/200 to modern, "big" airplanes (having never flown a CRJ or similar glass cockpit aircraft).

Fishfreighter

Thanks for laying out your credentials in advance. At least we're ready for your "reasoning."

Ouch. I guess the criticism hit pretty close to home. Gee, I thought these forums were here for people to express their opinions and (perhaps) give low timers like yourself some guidance.

First off, hazing anyone anytime is inappropriate. It is, IMHO, a safety hazard to have a low time pilot in either seat of a Part 121 aircraft. Both pilots should and soon will be required to have ATP licenses. The paying public deserves no less.

It has nothing to do with respect. It has everything to do with experience and qualification. Just because you have a pilot license doesn't mean you're qualified to fly a Part 121 airplane. Just because you have a driver's license doesn't mean you're qualified to drive in a NASCAR race.

Part 121 is the BIG LEAGUE, regardless of whether the airline is Mainline, LCC or Regional. And 250 hour wonders have no business being there. Period, end of story.

So, in other words, you are completely clueless about the airlines. But look at the bright side. Only another 1120 hours instructing, pass your ATP and you'll have the MINIMUM qualifications to APPLY for an airline job.

Keep working hard. Perhaps you'll land that entry level airline job in 5 years or so.