Originally Posted by FlyJSH

Totally agree with reading "Fate is the Hunter" before you ever touch the controls of a passenger plane. I can't believe how many guys haven't picked up a copy.





Ummm, Don't forget The High and the Mighty. In this kinder, gentler, overly PC world, we forget sometimes our coworkers need a good slap in the face.

And don't forget the line from Moby Dick, "Captains ain't above the law, Captains IS the law."

Originally Posted by brianb

I think you guys have something here. When I started in the Airbus, I asked as many questions as the Captain could stand. I think todays pilots are afraid to ask questions for fear of looking like a dumb***. I try to learn something from every Captain and sometimes its not just about flying. Hopefully, most guys/gals with four strips on their shoulder will continue to share their knowledge and expertise with anyone who desires to be a better pilot.

Originally Posted by NoStep

For all those, "Back in the day..." posters, something to think about.
After re-reading Earnest K Gann's "Fate Is The Hunter", (if you haven't read it before flying 121, shame on you), it's a striking contrast to current air-carrier flying.

Back then, you had really green newhires flying manly aircraft (DC-2 and DC-3) that took years to master, under the tutelage of a true pilot-in-command. It was just understood that it's the Captain's responsibility to bring up the junior guys, always watching and commanding the plane and crew. It was imminently more dangerous flying, and it was never taken for granted that the guy sitting to the right was sharp...you made sure he was!

Contrast that to those who whine that flying with FNG's is like flying single-pilot, and they're not check-airmen...boo-hoo...when you put on that 4th-stripe, it's your ship! No matter how experienced or not your f/o is, it's time to put on big-boy pants and know how to command.

So 1,500 hours will make things safer...I say we double-down and make it a cool 3,000. It'll make things twice as safe. Who's with me?

Originally Posted by wrxpilot

I'm pretty sure that Gann and his fellow new hires at American weren't fresh 250 hours applicants. In fact, I recall that he spoke of his flight instructing experience (among other flying jobs) before getting hired by American.

Originally Posted by NuGuy

True. In fact in the first chapter of the book, where he describes the near mid-air, you find that both he and his co-pilot had ATRs.

ATR = Airline Transport Rating... the ATP of the day.

Nu

Originally Posted by NoStep

(note to mods; this isn't meant as thread-drift. I believe mentoring is germaine to the ATP rule)

Good on ya, brianb! (the "b" doesn't stand for Bedford, does it?)
"Flying with these Nuggets is like flying single-pilot! It's the Training Dept's job to teach these guys." WRONG!!! The Training Dep. is to train to proficiency. When you took your PIC type-ride, along with it came the privilege and obligation to pass along expertise. It's the f/o's obligation to learn as much as possible...and take the crew-meal chicken.

How many of us would have given our left-one to learn; CRM from Al Haines, energy management from Bob Hoover, leadership from Robin Olds? My left seater may not be any of those guys, but I'll bet he/she has alot I could learn from.

The old timers are retiring and/or dying-off, taking with them a wealth of information. If some of our captains changed their attitudes, they can leave their mark on aviation for generations to come. Time to stop whining and pay-it-forward!

Rant over...

Originally Posted by brianb

Rant enjoyed. I wish more old timers felt the way you do. Never stop learning and never stop teaching. You enjoy life more.

Originally Posted by sleepy1456

But was stating that 250hr pilots should have the opportunity to learn just like every one else.

Originally Posted by sleepy1456

Was not implying that 250hr pilot knows more than a 1500hr, 2500hr, 10,000hr... But was stating that 250hr pilots should have the opportunity to learn just like every one else. When a 1500hr CFI steps in the cockpit of a ERJ, CRJ, etc he or she is just as lost as a 250 hr pilot. The 1500hr definitely knows more, but if a 250 hr was taught right by a good captain... Could you imagine the skill level at 1500hrs!!! What was said above is what I was trying to say, but I think I said it to harsh.

It's to bad when it was stated, " flying with a 250 hr pilot is like flying single-pilot IFR" Seems like you lost the passion of teaching your experience and knowledge to a low time pilot...

Glad some people still believe in passing on knowledge.

Pz out