atpcliff

Hi!

"What I've heard is that only ABBI accredited four year institutions will be allowed to credit academic time towards the 1500 hours. Since the senate originally wanted 800 hours, I wouldn't be surprised if the FAA allowed 700 hours to be substituted for that four year degree."

I think that Senators would be shocked if this happens. If they had wanted 800 hours, they would have left their bill as-is, and forced the House to come down to 800 hours. They agreed to the ATP/1500 hour change for a reason.

Right now, the 250 hour rule for Commercial, can be reduced to about 188 hours, a 62 hour reduction.

cliff
GRB

TurboDog

Was talking with one of the FEDs today at Lunken airport that is involved with the notice of proposed rule making. It appears that the ATP mins are what they are pushing forward with. So the TT, Night, X-C etc. Don't exactly need the ATP certificate, but at least the experience. Their reasoning is that you have the experience behind the firewall and not necessarily in a classroom from a given Academy or University.

They are trying to workout a system where say a guy who has 1500 hours of flight instruction and Pipeline Patrol would be equal to a guy that has say 1300 hours with the majority of it in a King Air at Flight Levels vs. buzzing around at 2000 feet in a single engine piston aircraft.

They are also trying to figure out if and where to Granfather people into the program. Say a guy is at XYC Regional right now with 800TT, they would most likely let the guy stay, because he has gained experience and will meet the requirement within a number of months. Whereas a guy who was hired at 350 TT and got up to 600TT and then was furloughed and is now still sitting close to 1000 hours shy of the requirement, they might cut loose, but allow to keep some type of seniority for when they return with the required experience. That they would have preferential hiring before anyone else off the street was hired. So maybe not retaining seniority, because I am sure that would be a union issue.

He was telling me that this and the REST BEHIND THE DOOR regs should probably go into effect in 2011.

bcrosier

Let's hope so, and let's hope they are smart enough to do away with the pointless distinctions between domestic/flag/supplemental - as if you are somehow less fatigued in one type of operation than another.

Instead, let's have realistic requirements based on time of day of show, legs operated, time zones crossed, and hours on duty, and also address layover lengths (eg; a 12 hour or 36 hour layover allow one or two full sleep cycles - a 24 hour layover is worse than either as it's too long for one cycle and too short for two). In other words, hopefully they'll incorporate what's been known for years from numerous studies (yeah, yeah, I know - put the crack pipe down and step away...).

TonyWilliams

SEC. 216. FLIGHT CREWMEMBER SCREENING AND QUALIFICATIONS.
(a) Requirements-
(1) RULEMAKING PROCEEDING- The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall conduct a rulemaking proceeding to require part 121 air carriers to develop and implement means and methods for ensuring that flight crewmembers have proper qualifications and experience.
(2) MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS-
(A) PROSPECTIVE FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that prospective flight crewmembers undergo comprehensive preemployment screening, including an assessment of the skills, aptitudes, airmanship, and suitability of each applicant for a position as a flight crewmember in terms of functioning effectively in the air carrier’s operational environment.
(B) ALL FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that, after the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, all flight crewmembers--
(i) have obtained an airline transport pilot certificate under part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations; and
(ii) have appropriate multi-engine aircraft flight experience, as determined by the Administrator.
(b) Deadlines- The Administrator shall issue--
(1) not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, a notice of proposed rulemaking under subsection (a); and
(2) not later than 24 months after such date of enactment, a final rule under subsection (a).
(c) Default- The requirement that each flight crewmember for a part 121 air carrier hold an airline transport pilot certificate under part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, shall begin to apply on the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act even if the Administrator fails to meet a deadline established under this section.
SEC. 217. AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT CERTIFICATION.
(a) Rulemaking Proceeding- The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall conduct a rulemaking proceeding to amend part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, to modify requirements for the issuance of an airline transport pilot certificate.
(b) Minimum Requirements- To be qualified to receive an airline transport pilot certificate pursuant to subsection (a), an individual shall--
(1) have sufficient flight hours, as determined by the Administrator, to enable a pilot to function effectively in an air carrier operational environment; and
(2) have received flight training, academic training, or operational experience that will prepare a pilot, at a minimum, to--
(A) function effectively in a multipilot environment;
(B) function effectively in adverse weather conditions, including icing conditions;
(C) function effectively during high altitude operations;
(D) adhere to the highest professional standards; and
(E) function effectively in an air carrier operational environment.
(c) Flight Hours-
(1) NUMBERS OF FLIGHT HOURS- The total flight hours required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall be at least 1,500 flight hours.
(2) FLIGHT HOURS IN DIFFICULT OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS- The total flight hours required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall include sufficient flight hours, as determined by the Administrator, in difficult operational conditions that may be encountered by an air carrier to enable a pilot to operate safely in such conditions.
(d) Credit Toward Flight Hours- The Administrator may allow specific academic training courses, beyond those required under subsection (b)(2), to be credited toward the total flight hours required under subsection (c). The Administrator may allow such credit based on a determination by the Administrator that allowing a pilot to take specific academic training courses will enhance safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight hours requirement.
(e) Recommendations of Expert Panel- In conducting the rulemaking proceeding under this section, the Administrator shall review and consider the assessment and recommendations of the expert panel to review part 121 and part 135 training hours established by section 209(b) of this Act.
(f) Deadline- Not later than 36 months after the date of enactment of this Act, the Administrator shall issue a final rule under subsection (a).

Gajre539

Old news, my friend.

http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/ma...le-passes.html

atpcliff

Hi!

In the bill, it says the rest rules refers to CREWMEMBERS. It does not specify -121 or -135. The ATP is specifically to -121 (and NOT PAX or freight).

The rest rules WILL have to go into effect in 2011, as Congress only gave the FAA 12 mos to finalize the rules.

TurboDog: Thanx 4 that good info...sounds VERY NICE!

cliff
GRB

Whacker77

So you're saying airlines may be forced to furlough pilots who don't meet the 1500 hour rule immediately? I'm not saying you're wrong at all, but I understood the rule to say something else. I thought there was going to be a three year grace period. If what you were told is right, I think that's a bit draconian to turf employed pilots until they meet ATP mins.

atpcliff

Hi!

The rule says 1500/atp to be a -121 pilot. It also says into effect 3 years after the bill signed (which was 2 days ago).

I interpret it to mean that when the bill into effect, all -121 will need atp/1500. I think this is the same thing the Fed was saying, more or less. Sounds like the Feds already thought of this and are figuring out how to implement the bill, and how it will directly affect any pilots with less than their ATP.

cliff
GRB

Dan64456

Going 1 yr without a retirement plan or health benefits kind of matters... If a CFI wasn't in line with working under the table at McDonalds benefits wise, more people wouldn't mind the idea of doing it.

jumpseat2024

Any idea on how long until the law takes effect I thought I read a while back something about 3 years, but in reading the newest press release it only says 3 years for some FAA mentoring program.