1500hr / ATP for Part 121 rule passes
08-01-2010, 11:28 AM
#271
Eats shoots and leaves...
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Didactic Synthetic Aviation Experience Provider
Posts: 849
I know I may be flamed without mercy for saying this but,
I would welcome a little hour reduction or some other incentive for folks going to train at certain quality institutions. The hour credit to be determined by research.
Structured institutions are like quality assurance to me. The likelyhood of having a superior, consistent product is greater.
I would welcome a little hour reduction or some other incentive for folks going to train at certain quality institutions. The hour credit to be determined by research.
Structured institutions are like quality assurance to me. The likelyhood of having a superior, consistent product is greater.
Insuring that the programs given credit for this be legitimate, well accredited programs which offer genuine worthwhile academic training in appropriate areas. It's too easy to "fill squares" for the FAA while having little or know real learning take place. I read on here of many people who want to go to a 141 school for "quality training," yet I've seen people come out of 141 graduates come out devoid of common sense or the ability to actually apply what they've supposedly been taught beyond the rote level (make no mistake - this happens under Part 61 as well).
If there were some legitimate method of review to insure that only those schools who really deserve the credit get it, that would be great. The problem is, those most likely to (at least initially) get the credit are likely to be the ones seeing lots of $$$ by advertising "become an airline pilot in less hours at All American Transport Flyers" by slapping together a few mediocre modules in a ground school.
08-01-2010, 12:40 PM
#274
Eats shoots and leaves...
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Didactic Synthetic Aviation Experience Provider
Posts: 849
08-01-2010, 01:38 PM
#275
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
The puppy mills will get to advertise, "hurry up and get your 250 hour pilot job now, before the rules change in 36 months".
Then, they can charge more for all the additional training required, and additional hours. Win, win.
Also, the final rule in 36 months could say, "effective 1 Jan 20xx...." 2015, 2020 ?
Then, they can charge more for all the additional training required, and additional hours. Win, win.
Also, the final rule in 36 months could say, "effective 1 Jan 20xx...." 2015, 2020 ?
That's kind of my point--it doesn't say. It leaves it up the the Administrator. Since the FAA is against this legislation to begin with, it's my guess they will try to reduce it by as much as possible. Could they reduce it by the entire difference between 250 and 1500? Why not? There's nothing specific that says otherwise.
Congress passes useless legislation all the time to make it look like they being tough and proactive, but it's often rife with loopholes--as this bill seems to be.
Congress passes useless legislation all the time to make it look like they being tough and proactive, but it's often rife with loopholes--as this bill seems to be.
Given all of the heat placed by the Congress on the FAA, I can't imagine the FAA lowering the ATP minimum for pilot mills to 250. I could see something in the neighborhood of 1000 or 1200, but that would be it.
I earned my private, instrument, and commercial at a local 141 school. Considering it was FAA supervised, I wonder if that might allow for a lower time. It's really not a big deal for me as I have 1300 hours, but I think it would be somewhat unfair if a person like me earned a college degree in finance and then went to a 141 school, but couldn't get a lower ATP minimum as someone who went to a college program could.
Life's not fair, I know and I'm not *****ing. I'm just wondering if all 141 schools will get the benefit of the doubt, or just universities.
I earned my private, instrument, and commercial at a local 141 school. Considering it was FAA supervised, I wonder if that might allow for a lower time. It's really not a big deal for me as I have 1300 hours, but I think it would be somewhat unfair if a person like me earned a college degree in finance and then went to a 141 school, but couldn't get a lower ATP minimum as someone who went to a college program could.
Life's not fair, I know and I'm not *****ing. I'm just wondering if all 141 schools will get the benefit of the doubt, or just universities.
Yeah I can see it also, come here to Blah Blah flight school where we have the training requirements for you to get hired in 30 days.
I would like to see the FAA act instead of react before more incidents/accidents happen. Fix FT/DT Regs, update the airspace system, hiring mins, etc. Or how about they sit back with some popcorn and watch more incidents/accidents happen.
I would like to see the FAA act instead of react before more incidents/accidents happen. Fix FT/DT Regs, update the airspace system, hiring mins, etc. Or how about they sit back with some popcorn and watch more incidents/accidents happen.
Actually, after initially railing against this, I'm would tend to cautiously agree with you, but for one major problem:
Insuring that the programs given credit for this be legitimate, well accredited programs which offer genuine worthwhile academic training in appropriate areas. It's too easy to "fill squares" for the FAA while having little or know real learning take place. I read on here of many people who want to go to a 141 school for "quality training," yet I've seen people come out of 141 graduates come out devoid of common sense or the ability to actually apply what they've supposedly been taught beyond the rote level (make no mistake - this happens under Part 61 as well).
If there were some legitimate method of review to insure that only those schools who really deserve the credit get it, that would be great. The problem is, those most likely to (at least initially) get the credit are likely to be the ones seeing lots of $$$ by advertising "become an airline pilot in less hours at All American Transport Flyers" by slapping together a few mediocre modules in a ground school.
Insuring that the programs given credit for this be legitimate, well accredited programs which offer genuine worthwhile academic training in appropriate areas. It's too easy to "fill squares" for the FAA while having little or know real learning take place. I read on here of many people who want to go to a 141 school for "quality training," yet I've seen people come out of 141 graduates come out devoid of common sense or the ability to actually apply what they've supposedly been taught beyond the rote level (make no mistake - this happens under Part 61 as well).
If there were some legitimate method of review to insure that only those schools who really deserve the credit get it, that would be great. The problem is, those most likely to (at least initially) get the credit are likely to be the ones seeing lots of $$$ by advertising "become an airline pilot in less hours at All American Transport Flyers" by slapping together a few mediocre modules in a ground school.
What I've heard is that only ABBI accredited four year institutions will be allowed to credit academic time towards the 1500 hours. Since the senate originally wanted 800 hours, I wouldn't be surprised if the FAA allowed 700 hours to be substituted for that four year degree.
Seeing that the funding expired today, I would assume its true.
Last edited by Nevets; 08-01-2010 at 02:00 PM.
08-01-2010, 03:11 PM
#276
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Position: 747 Captain, retired
Posts: 928
Really? So what you are saying is the average job blow civilian pilot out there drilling holes in the sky, in a C-1filthy, is flying around empty headed and in goes one hour of flying in the left ear and makes a clean pass through the other ear without learning a thing. I think you wore your headgear a little too tight and may have suffered some head swelling.
Every civilian pilot I ever met,including me, who was building hours to get the next certificate, be it instrument, Commercial, CFI or whaterver and eventually getting an airline job, worked very hard at perfecting his or her flying skills and that included self critique's at the conclusion of many of those flights.
What I've heard is that only ABBI accredited four year institutions will be allowed to credit academic time towards the 1500 hours. Since the senate originally wanted 800 hours, I wouldn't be surprised if the FAA allowed 700 hours to be substituted for that four year degree.
Seeing that the funding expired today, I would assume its true.[/quote]
Every civilian pilot I ever met,including me, who was building hours to get the next certificate, be it instrument, Commercial, CFI or whaterver and eventually getting an airline job, worked very hard at perfecting his or her flying skills and that included self critique's at the conclusion of many of those flights.
What I've heard is that only ABBI accredited four year institutions will be allowed to credit academic time towards the 1500 hours. Since the senate originally wanted 800 hours, I wouldn't be surprised if the FAA allowed 700 hours to be substituted for that four year degree.
Seeing that the funding expired today, I would assume its true.[/quote]
08-01-2010, 05:41 PM
#277
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
08-01-2010, 06:09 PM
#278
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: CL-65 / Gear Wrangler
Posts: 321
08-01-2010, 06:18 PM
#279
On Reserve
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: MSP7ERB
Posts: 1,886
You can read the full text here: HR5900 is the bill that was signed:
Read The Bill: H.R. 5900 - GovTrack.us
Read The Bill: H.R. 5900 - GovTrack.us
08-01-2010, 06:34 PM
#280
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 638
Looks like they really gave the FAA 2 years to get this stuff enacted using their own NPRM process. If they fail to do so after 3 years then it defaults to basically require an ATP for 121 operations.
Also it looks like the changes to how ATPs are qualified will happen in 36 months. Sounds like there's going to be a significant shakeup in that regard if you read the bill.
Also it looks like the changes to how ATPs are qualified will happen in 36 months. Sounds like there's going to be a significant shakeup in that regard if you read the bill.
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