krudawg

["In the military, every single flight is thoroughly briefed and debriefed, and taken as a training event. Every single landing on an aircraft carrier is graded and critiqued."

And your point is?

krudawg

Actually, I'm with a Major Legacy carrier with nearly 28,000 hours of flight time and am a 767 Captain...since you asked. I am former military(non-pilot) and a Vietnam Vet. I take no issues with military trained pilots and have always held them in the highest regard and apparently you do as well. My only point was that 1500 hours is arbitary; like 20/20 uncorrected vision. If you want to rant on about how great you are because your are an elite fighter pilot; please, be my guest but that is not the topic of this thread.

SlowATRDriver

Its a shame that Colgan, Pinnacle and American Eagle are still hiring pilots with less time eventhough 1500 hours has been discussed over and over again.

Especially Colgan, should be the first one to go to 1500 hour minumun and beter pay.

Twin Wasp

Then you'll really love when "Line up and wait" starts Oct 1 this year.

bcrosier

Actually that one I'm used to, as I 98% of my flying is international (though I still prefer "position and hold"). At least the FAA did away with the incursion inducing insanity of the "taxi runway" clearance. {Sorry for the thread drift there}

Back to the topic at hand - I am concerned about the potential loopholes in this legislation, and I agree that there needs to be additional legislation requiring the contracting airline to be liable for the bad deeds of it's subcontractors. That said, at least this is a step in the right direction - now if we can just keep the FAA from screwing it up.

Whacker77

This might be an outside the box thought, but maybe there aren't the large number of ATP pilots waiting for jobs with regionals. While there were a lot of furloughs, many are being called back and others have just left the industry. It's almost certain those on furlough from majors aren't applying for regional jobs. It could just be there aren't a lot of guys with 1500 hours waiting to apply. That was a worry I had about this rule.

As for the 1500 hour, I agree it is arbitrary, but so are a lot of things. I argued against it because I thought it took away an airline's flexibity to hire based on the economic conditions. I made an economic argument while the government made a safety argument. I don't think safety changes much as a result, but let's hope it does.

I do seriously worry about the icing requirment though. Will it be an academic requirement or an actual requirment? If it is the former, we might see a spike in icing accidents as people try and meet the requirements for an ATP. That's not good.

I do hope the FAA just mandates 1500 hours and allows 121's to issue ATP's. I would hate to see designated examiners be the big winner on this issue.

iPilot

There are lots and lots and lots of pilots out there with ATPs that don't fly for the airlines by choice. Whether they've left the industry or fly corporate or whatnot doesn't really matter. I know of many who would love to work for the airlines if they would get their acts together and pay a reasonable wage.

I mean really, most starting wages at the regionals are about $19-25k and even the majors are $35-40k. Is that really acceptable for the kind of work and high quality people the public expect? I don't think it's too much to ask of the airlines to afford even their most junior FO their own apartment and money for basic needs.

Believe me, the airlines won't sit by while the planes can't fly due to lack of crews. This is the cost of doing business just like engine overhauls and landing fees, they'll pony up the costs and pass it on to the consumer which is where it should of been a long time ago.

TonyWilliams

Why do you care about an airline's flexibility? You mean they can't hire 250 hour for presumably the same price as 1500 hour pilots?

Don't worry. There are more loopholes in this bill than swiss cheese. Dirt cheap new hires, pay to play, and all the rest will still be in play.

block30

I know I may be flamed without mercy for saying this but,

I would welcome a little hour reduction or some other incentive for folks going to train at certain quality institutions. The hour credit to be determined by research.

Structured institutions are like quality assurance to me. The likelyhood of having a superior, consistent product is greater.

I fear that folks will, in order to reach 1500, go with the crappiest Cessna 150s or worse with the bare bones cheapest flight instructor and so on for all their ratings. I've seen this far too often. Can I get a witness?!

I base this on my personal experience flying at mom and pop (or lesser) flight schools for my private. I compare this to a more structured program I went to later post-private.

Additionally the pilots I've flown with who have come from mom and pop places are generally not as 'well rounded' as the university or 141 grads.

Now the egos on the other hand...I'll take a mom and pop-er over the 141 types most days!

block30

By the way, the buffalonews.com website makes it sound that the president has signed the bill into law, but I can't find any other sources to back this up. Anybody know? I have been waiting to celebrate since the senate passed this on Friday....