1500hr / ATP for Part 121 rule passes
07-30-2010, 05:15 PM
#211
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 1,901
In the part 91 world, you're right. However 135 (unscheduled charter) your duty begins when you leave the hotel and/or begin your deadhead. That said, they can give you some whopper assignments with all the holes in 135 rest rules. Combine that with lots of 91 repositioning legs and you're in for a fun time.
While I doubt it, it would be great if these new duty rules applied to all for hire flying, not just the airlines.
While I doubt it, it would be great if these new duty rules applied to all for hire flying, not just the airlines.
07-30-2010, 05:17 PM
#212
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 1,901
Maybe if they're lucky! We in the US are the bottom of the barrel when it comes to airline work rules and pay... Seems like most of the ex-pat pilots I've talked to are pretty damn glad to be working for a foreign airline rather than a US airline.
07-30-2010, 06:13 PM
#213
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: DA-40
Posts: 290
The NPRM is already in the works. Currently it is being held up in the White House Office of Management and Budget (OMB). As for rules on commuting, I didn't see that. I did see that it requires the FAA to get the Academy of Sciences to conduct a study on it, make recommendations, and for the FAA to implement if necessary.
.
Personally, having commuted for years, and been around people and coworkers who have, it's really a non-issue. There are many other factors that cause fatigue more than the commute. Most pilots are well versed on commuting and it is really a non-issue when related to accumulated fatigue.
SEC. 212. PILOT FATIGUE.
(a) Flight and Duty Time Regulations-
(1) IN GENERAL- In accordance with paragraph (3), the Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall issue regulations, based on the best available scientific information, to specify limitations on the hours of flight and duty time allowed for pilots to address problems relating to pilot fatigue.
(2) MATTERS TO BE ADDRESSED- In conducting the rulemaking proceeding under this subsection, the Administrator shall consider and review the following:
(A) Time of day of flights in a duty period.
(B) Number of takeoff and landings in a duty period.
(C) Number of time zones crossed in a duty period.
(D) The impact of functioning in multiple time zones or on different daily schedules.
(E) Research conducted on fatigue, sleep, and circadian rhythms.
(F) Sleep and rest requirements recommended by the National Transportation Safety Board and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration.
(G) International standards regarding flight schedules and duty periods.
(H) Alternative procedures to facilitate alertness in the cockpit.
(I) Scheduling and attendance policies and practices, including sick leave.
(J) The effects of commuting, the means of commuting, and the length of the commute.
(K) Medical screening and treatment.
(L) Rest environments.
(M) Any other matters the Administrator considers appropriate.
07-30-2010, 06:28 PM
#214
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,903
Heyas,
The rule says the FAA MAY provide a reduction in the number for an ATP for academic work. Not that they must.
To put that in context, there has never been any rule that the FAA MUST require 1,500 hours for an ATP. In many cases, certificate requirements are driven by ICAO requirements. The FAA has been free to reduce the number of hours for an ATP any time they wished. In fact, an ATP with a rotorcraft rating only requires 1200 hours.
Unless the FAA plans to introduce multiple levels of ATP certificates, you're telling me that the FAA will let some hotshot with 800 hours and some class work command an aircraft under 121? Especially when a 135 IFR ATP requires 1,200 hours? The first accident with a sub-1,500 hour ATP as PIC and Congress will burn the FAA from stem to stern.
Not a chance. ATPs will stay at 1,500 hours for everyone unless the FAA decides to go with a multiple tier ATP.
Nu
The rule says the FAA MAY provide a reduction in the number for an ATP for academic work. Not that they must.
To put that in context, there has never been any rule that the FAA MUST require 1,500 hours for an ATP. In many cases, certificate requirements are driven by ICAO requirements. The FAA has been free to reduce the number of hours for an ATP any time they wished. In fact, an ATP with a rotorcraft rating only requires 1200 hours.
Unless the FAA plans to introduce multiple levels of ATP certificates, you're telling me that the FAA will let some hotshot with 800 hours and some class work command an aircraft under 121? Especially when a 135 IFR ATP requires 1,200 hours? The first accident with a sub-1,500 hour ATP as PIC and Congress will burn the FAA from stem to stern.
Not a chance. ATPs will stay at 1,500 hours for everyone unless the FAA decides to go with a multiple tier ATP.
Nu
07-30-2010, 06:31 PM
#215
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,903
Huh??!!
Foreigners come here to train because it is MUCH cheaper to train here than in Europe. I have trained quite a few in my day, thank you very much.
With that being said, most of the ones I trained turned around and got jobs in their respective countries, flying small and large narrowbodies with 750TT or less. Getting a job flying a narrowbody (or larger) is much easier in Europe and Asia than it is in the US when you compare actual time logged. Not to mention the fact that most of those "entry level" jobs pay fairly well.
Foreigners come here to train because it is MUCH cheaper to train here than in Europe. I have trained quite a few in my day, thank you very much.
With that being said, most of the ones I trained turned around and got jobs in their respective countries, flying small and large narrowbodies with 750TT or less. Getting a job flying a narrowbody (or larger) is much easier in Europe and Asia than it is in the US when you compare actual time logged. Not to mention the fact that most of those "entry level" jobs pay fairly well.
Go over to PPRUNE and do a search. You don't get a job over there unless you have a VERY fat chequebook.
Nu
07-30-2010, 06:53 PM
#216
Eats shoots and leaves...
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: Didactic Synthetic Aviation Experience Provider
Posts: 849
Not to mention obtaining the right to work in Europe is a VERY daunting task according to all accounts I've heard (I don't have first hand experience in this regard.
Other countries will probably eventually become easier eventually, but other parts of the world tend to come with their own set of liabilities which reduces the attractiveness of those options (nothing like worrying about avoiding being kidnapped as a "wealthy foreigner" or fighting off malaria to make you wonder if indulging your SJS is really worth it).
Other countries will probably eventually become easier eventually, but other parts of the world tend to come with their own set of liabilities which reduces the attractiveness of those options (nothing like worrying about avoiding being kidnapped as a "wealthy foreigner" or fighting off malaria to make you wonder if indulging your SJS is really worth it).
07-30-2010, 06:53 PM
#217
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: Missionary
Posts: 309
You're inferring I'm making no distinction between training hours and total hours. That's not the case.
(Like the saying that, "There are 2 types of 500 hour pilots...one who's flown 500 hours, and one who's flown 1 hour, 500 times) Some guys here have a beef with 250hr. Riddle-diddles...but,personally, 2 of the sharpest pilots I've ever flown with were Riddle grads, and I would rather put my family on their aircraft than some banner-towing cowboy.
This could be debated eternally, but as it appears to me, this law does nothing to prevent another Colgan 3407. It's got us all talking about the facets of the bill, yet doesn't address the cause of this crash! Renslow AND Shaw BOTH screwed-the-pooch during a basic upset recovery, and we're debating 1,500 hours and icing...they were both obviously weak pilots who had ingrained bad habits, and in the case of Renslow, problems passing checkrides from Private to PIC-type.
There will be a bunch of wailing ("those damn 250hour wonders")and some cheering ("it'll eventually raise my pay"), but it doesn't hide the fact the families of Colgan 3407 have been hoodwinked by a congress who've apparently grown tired of running car companies and banks and want to try their hand at aviation.
07-30-2010, 07:07 PM
#218
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Treading Water
Posts: 37
ALL FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that, after the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, all flight crewmembers--
(i) have obtained an airline transport pilot certificate under part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations; and
(ii) have appropriate multi-engine aircraft flight experience, as determined by the Administrator.
07-30-2010, 07:55 PM
#219
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: 777 Cap
Posts: 90
Three year grandfather applies only to currently employed 121 pilots without an ATP. All new hires will require an ATP as of the date of signing of the Act. Too bad 135 carriers are not included too! Scumbag outfits like Gulfstream will still be selling B-1900 sic time with paying passengers in back. I guess it's ok to endanger 135 passengers, but not 121.
FAIL
FAIL
Last edited by Take Priority; 07-30-2010 at 08:15 PM.
07-30-2010, 08:10 PM
#220
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: EMB 145 CPT
Posts: 2,934
Nevets,
You're inferring I'm making no distinction between training hours and total hours. That's not the case.
(Like the saying that, "There are 2 types of 500 hour pilots...one who's flown 500 hours, and one who's flown 1 hour, 500 times) Some guys here have a beef with 250hr. Riddle-diddles...but,personally, 2 of the sharpest pilots I've ever flown with were Riddle grads, and I would rather put my family on their aircraft than some banner-towing cowboy.
This could be debated eternally, but as it appears to me, this law does nothing to prevent another Colgan 3407. It's got us all talking about the facets of the bill, yet doesn't address the cause of this crash! Renslow AND Shaw BOTH screwed-the-pooch during a basic upset recovery, and we're debating 1,500 hours and icing...they were both obviously weak pilots who had ingrained bad habits, and in the case of Renslow, problems passing checkrides from Private to PIC-type.
There will be a bunch of wailing ("those damn 250hour wonders")and some cheering ("it'll eventually raise my pay"), but it doesn't hide the fact the families of Colgan 3407 have been hoodwinked by a congress who've apparently grown tired of running car companies and banks and want to try their hand at aviation.
You're inferring I'm making no distinction between training hours and total hours. That's not the case.
(Like the saying that, "There are 2 types of 500 hour pilots...one who's flown 500 hours, and one who's flown 1 hour, 500 times) Some guys here have a beef with 250hr. Riddle-diddles...but,personally, 2 of the sharpest pilots I've ever flown with were Riddle grads, and I would rather put my family on their aircraft than some banner-towing cowboy.
This could be debated eternally, but as it appears to me, this law does nothing to prevent another Colgan 3407. It's got us all talking about the facets of the bill, yet doesn't address the cause of this crash! Renslow AND Shaw BOTH screwed-the-pooch during a basic upset recovery, and we're debating 1,500 hours and icing...they were both obviously weak pilots who had ingrained bad habits, and in the case of Renslow, problems passing checkrides from Private to PIC-type.
There will be a bunch of wailing ("those damn 250hour wonders")and some cheering ("it'll eventually raise my pay"), but it doesn't hide the fact the families of Colgan 3407 have been hoodwinked by a congress who've apparently grown tired of running car companies and banks and want to try their hand at aviation.
Anyways, there is absolutely nothing wrong with using the leverage of this accident to deal with other issues in our profession.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
