1500hr / ATP for Part 121 rule passes
07-30-2010, 12:45 PM
#191
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Posts: 147
Don't be so sure.....the are telling people flying right now that they soon may not be able to because they have too few hours.
07-30-2010, 12:54 PM
#192
First Rule of Fight Club
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: My seat smells like cat pee
Posts: 1,536
Anyone who has been hired recently or is still flying through this down turn has the time and 3 years to get it if they don't. It is different than the economic impact of cutting off commuting.
07-30-2010, 01:04 PM
#193
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: MD80
Posts: 394
X
07-30-2010, 01:05 PM
#194
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: EMB-170 FO
Posts: 383
Maybe I'm not reading between the lines, but where does it state that prospective 121 pilots will need an ATP?
I see the 1500 hour requirement under subsection (b)(1) and all current 121 pilots needing an ATP within 3 years.
H.R.5900
Airline Safety and Federal Aviation Administration Extension Act of 2010 (Introduced in House - IH)
SEC. 216. FLIGHT CREWMEMBER SCREENING AND QUALIFICATIONS.
(a) Requirements-
(1) RULEMAKING PROCEEDING- The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall conduct a rulemaking proceeding to require part 121 air carriers to develop and implement means and methods for ensuring that flight crewmembers have proper qualifications and experience.
(2) MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS-
(A) PROSPECTIVE FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that prospective flight crewmembers undergo comprehensive preemployment screening, including an assessment of the skills, aptitudes, airmanship, and suitability of each applicant for a position as a flight crewmember in terms of functioning effectively in the air carrier's operational environment.
(B) ALL FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that, after the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, all flight crewmembers--
(i) have obtained an airline transport pilot certificate under part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations; and
(ii) have appropriate multi-engine aircraft flight experience, as determined by the Administrator.
(b) Deadlines- The Administrator shall issue--
(1) not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, a notice of proposed rulemaking under subsection (a); and
(2) not later than 24 months after such date of enactment, a final rule under subsection (a).
(c) Default- The requirement that each flight crewmember for a part 121 air carrier hold an airline transport pilot certificate under part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, shall begin to apply on the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act even if the Administrator fails to meet a deadline established under this section.
SEC. 217. AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT CERTIFICATION.
(a) Rulemaking Proceeding- The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall conduct a rulemaking proceeding to amend part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, to modify requirements for the issuance of an airline transport pilot certificate.
(b) Minimum Requirements- To be qualified to receive an airline transport pilot certificate pursuant to subsection (a), an individual shall--
(1) have sufficient flight hours, as determined by the Administrator, to enable a pilot to function effectively in an air carrier operational environment; and
(2) have received flight training, academic training, or operational experience that will prepare a pilot, at a minimum, to--
(A) function effectively in a multipilot environment;
(B) function effectively in adverse weather conditions, including icing conditions;
(C) function effectively during high altitude operations;
(D) adhere to the highest professional standards; and
(E) function effectively in an air carrier operational environment.
(c) Flight Hours-
(1) NUMBERS OF FLIGHT HOURS- The total flight hours required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall be at least 1,500 flight hours.
(2) FLIGHT HOURS IN DIFFICULT OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS- The total flight hours required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall include sufficient flight hours, as determined by the Administrator, in difficult operational conditions that may be encountered by an air carrier to enable a pilot to operate safely in such conditions.
(d) Credit Toward Flight Hours- The Administrator may allow specific academic training courses, beyond those required under subsection (b)(2), to be credited toward the total flight hours required under subsection (c). The Administrator may allow such credit based on a determination by the Administrator that allowing a pilot to take specific academic training courses will enhance safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight hours requirement.
(e) Recommendations of Expert Panel- In conducting the rulemaking proceeding under this section, the Administrator shall review and consider the assessment and recommendations of the expert panel to review part 121 and part 135 training hours established by section 209(b) of this Act.
(f) Deadline- Not later than 36 months after the date of enactment of this Act, the Administrator shall issue a final rule under subsection (a).
Source - Bill Text - 111th Congress (2009-2010) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
I see the 1500 hour requirement under subsection (b)(1) and all current 121 pilots needing an ATP within 3 years.
H.R.5900
Airline Safety and Federal Aviation Administration Extension Act of 2010 (Introduced in House - IH)
SEC. 216. FLIGHT CREWMEMBER SCREENING AND QUALIFICATIONS.
(a) Requirements-
(1) RULEMAKING PROCEEDING- The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall conduct a rulemaking proceeding to require part 121 air carriers to develop and implement means and methods for ensuring that flight crewmembers have proper qualifications and experience.
(2) MINIMUM REQUIREMENTS-
(A) PROSPECTIVE FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that prospective flight crewmembers undergo comprehensive preemployment screening, including an assessment of the skills, aptitudes, airmanship, and suitability of each applicant for a position as a flight crewmember in terms of functioning effectively in the air carrier's operational environment.
(B) ALL FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that, after the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, all flight crewmembers--
(i) have obtained an airline transport pilot certificate under part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations; and
(ii) have appropriate multi-engine aircraft flight experience, as determined by the Administrator.
(b) Deadlines- The Administrator shall issue--
(1) not later than 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act, a notice of proposed rulemaking under subsection (a); and
(2) not later than 24 months after such date of enactment, a final rule under subsection (a).
(c) Default- The requirement that each flight crewmember for a part 121 air carrier hold an airline transport pilot certificate under part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, shall begin to apply on the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act even if the Administrator fails to meet a deadline established under this section.
SEC. 217. AIRLINE TRANSPORT PILOT CERTIFICATION.
(a) Rulemaking Proceeding- The Administrator of the Federal Aviation Administration shall conduct a rulemaking proceeding to amend part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations, to modify requirements for the issuance of an airline transport pilot certificate.
(b) Minimum Requirements- To be qualified to receive an airline transport pilot certificate pursuant to subsection (a), an individual shall--
(1) have sufficient flight hours, as determined by the Administrator, to enable a pilot to function effectively in an air carrier operational environment; and
(2) have received flight training, academic training, or operational experience that will prepare a pilot, at a minimum, to--
(A) function effectively in a multipilot environment;
(B) function effectively in adverse weather conditions, including icing conditions;
(C) function effectively during high altitude operations;
(D) adhere to the highest professional standards; and
(E) function effectively in an air carrier operational environment.
(c) Flight Hours-
(1) NUMBERS OF FLIGHT HOURS- The total flight hours required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall be at least 1,500 flight hours.
(2) FLIGHT HOURS IN DIFFICULT OPERATIONAL CONDITIONS- The total flight hours required by the Administrator under subsection (b)(1) shall include sufficient flight hours, as determined by the Administrator, in difficult operational conditions that may be encountered by an air carrier to enable a pilot to operate safely in such conditions.
(d) Credit Toward Flight Hours- The Administrator may allow specific academic training courses, beyond those required under subsection (b)(2), to be credited toward the total flight hours required under subsection (c). The Administrator may allow such credit based on a determination by the Administrator that allowing a pilot to take specific academic training courses will enhance safety more than requiring the pilot to fully comply with the flight hours requirement.
(e) Recommendations of Expert Panel- In conducting the rulemaking proceeding under this section, the Administrator shall review and consider the assessment and recommendations of the expert panel to review part 121 and part 135 training hours established by section 209(b) of this Act.
(f) Deadline- Not later than 36 months after the date of enactment of this Act, the Administrator shall issue a final rule under subsection (a).
Source - Bill Text - 111th Congress (2009-2010) - THOMAS (Library of Congress)
07-30-2010, 01:10 PM
#195
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 638
Looks like I misread the bill. You're right that 3 years after signing all 121 pilots must have an ATP. I suppose its possible to hire 300 hour guys right up to the 3 year mark but then they would promptly have to be taken off the line the next day as they won't meet the new regulations. The airlines would be playing with fire if they kept hiring low timers approaching a year prior but I suppose they'll figure out a way to make it work one way or another.
07-30-2010, 02:20 PM
#197
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
It's simple... take a page from the corporate guys... their duty day starts when they get on their company paid flight to work....
the airlines won't like it because it makes you that much less usable on day one... but it works in the corporate world and has for a long time.
07-30-2010, 02:47 PM
#199
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2008
Position: B767
Posts: 1,901
It's simple... take a page from the corporate guys... their duty day starts when they get on their company paid flight to work....
the airlines won't like it because it makes you that much less usable on day one... but it works in the corporate world and has for a long time.
the airlines won't like it because it makes you that much less usable on day one... but it works in the corporate world and has for a long time.
I know some corporate flight departments have SOPs with specified duty periods, and I think that's great. But a lot of us don't. Although it does not happen very often, I've had some duty days that would make you wince.
07-30-2010, 02:52 PM
#200
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: EMB-170 FO
Posts: 383
Looks like I misread the bill. You're right that 3 years after signing all 121 pilots must have an ATP. I suppose its possible to hire 300 hour guys right up to the 3 year mark but then they would promptly have to be taken off the line the next day as they won't meet the new regulations. The airlines would be playing with fire if they kept hiring low timers approaching a year prior but I suppose they'll figure out a way to make it work one way or another.
on this one...
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