1500hr / ATP for Part 121 rule passes
07-23-2010, 06:17 AM
#112
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 944
OK, here it is, no holding back...
NO 300, 400, 500, etc. SUPER PILOT HAS ANY BUSINESS ATTEMPTING TO FLY AROUND PAYING PAX ON A COMPLICATED JET AC WHILE THE CPT DOES EVERYTHING IN HIS/HER POWER TO PREVENT MR SUPERPILOT FROM TURNING THE JET INTO A SMOLDERING PILE OF SCRAP. I DONT CARE IF YOU DO 1500 HOURS IN A BANNER TOW, ITS STILL EXPERIENCE!!! YOU NEED TO SCARE THE HECK OUT OF YOURSELF A FEW TIMES BY YOURSELF BEFORE YOU GIVE IT A GO WITH 50 LIVES AT STAKE!
Rant over....thank you.
NO 300, 400, 500, etc. SUPER PILOT HAS ANY BUSINESS ATTEMPTING TO FLY AROUND PAYING PAX ON A COMPLICATED JET AC WHILE THE CPT DOES EVERYTHING IN HIS/HER POWER TO PREVENT MR SUPERPILOT FROM TURNING THE JET INTO A SMOLDERING PILE OF SCRAP. I DONT CARE IF YOU DO 1500 HOURS IN A BANNER TOW, ITS STILL EXPERIENCE!!! YOU NEED TO SCARE THE HECK OUT OF YOURSELF A FEW TIMES BY YOURSELF BEFORE YOU GIVE IT A GO WITH 50 LIVES AT STAKE!
Rant over....thank you.
07-23-2010, 08:55 AM
#113
Guest
Posts: n/a
Don't look at it so literally
Too many people are seeing this rule as affecting safety by increasing he hour requirement and those increase hours makin better pilots at regionals. Although i think they will be a little better, I don't believe this is the real intention of the senators nor the family since both pilots had plenty of time and experience when it happened. The legislators and the family mostly show disgust and concern with the way pilots are compensated and treated at the regional level. How do you change that without mandating minimum wages??? Simply create a barrier to entry to boost the demand side of the equation, which will make regionals have to provide a better QOL to attract pilots. This increased quality of life will also yield safer pilots because the main gist of this whole thing was that they were fatigued from having to commute because they couldn't afford to live in base. how do you make regional pilots safer? Create a barrier to entry that will yield better pilots, end up paying them more, and make them less fatigued all the time. All of this equals happier and safer pilots.
People who make the argument that "at one time you needed 1500 hours get hired anyway so this will have no impact on pay" are incorrect. High time requirements in the past have always occurred at times when regionals were hiring the least with pilots everywhere with 250 hours lining at the door. In other words when supply was high and demand was low. once attition and growth start occurring again, which will invariably happen over the long term future, suddenly supply is there with people who've been instructing for the last few years, but once you hire them away from all the instruction jobs (who are being replaced with new cfis who need to instruct for a few years to get to 1500 hours) suddenly you are stuck in a two to three year gap in supply while demand stays constant.
Regionals will still need pilots but with none to fill the spots at that crappy quality of life...then shazam! They will have no choice but to raise pay and benefits to attract pilots against going to another carrier.
People who make the argument that "at one time you needed 1500 hours get hired anyway so this will have no impact on pay" are incorrect. High time requirements in the past have always occurred at times when regionals were hiring the least with pilots everywhere with 250 hours lining at the door. In other words when supply was high and demand was low. once attition and growth start occurring again, which will invariably happen over the long term future, suddenly supply is there with people who've been instructing for the last few years, but once you hire them away from all the instruction jobs (who are being replaced with new cfis who need to instruct for a few years to get to 1500 hours) suddenly you are stuck in a two to three year gap in supply while demand stays constant.
Regionals will still need pilots but with none to fill the spots at that crappy quality of life...then shazam! They will have no choice but to raise pay and benefits to attract pilots against going to another carrier.
07-23-2010, 10:04 AM
#114
RESERVE
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Position: 767/757 CA
Posts: 57
Too many people are seeing this rule as affecting safety by increasing he hour requirement and those increase hours makin better pilots at regionals. Although i think they will be a little better, I don't believe this is the real intention of the senators nor the family since both pilots had plenty of time and experience when it happened. The legislators and the family mostly show disgust and concern with the way pilots are compensated and treated at the regional level. How do you change that without mandating minimum wages??? Simply create a barrier to entry to boost the demand side of the equation, which will make regionals have to provide a better QOL to attract pilots. This increased quality of life will also yield safer pilots because the main gist of this whole thing was that they were fatigued from having to commute because they couldn't afford to live in base. how do you make regional pilots safer? Create a barrier to entry that will yield better pilots, end up paying them more, and make them less fatigued all the time. All of this equals happier and safer pilots.
People who make the argument that "at one time you needed 1500 hours get hired anyway so this will have no impact on pay" are incorrect. High time requirements in the past have always occurred at times when regionals were hiring the least with pilots everywhere with 250 hours lining at the door. In other words when supply was high and demand was low. once attition and growth start occurring again, which will invariably happen over the long term future, suddenly supply is there with people who've been instructing for the last few years, but once you hire them away from all the instruction jobs (who are being replaced with new cfis who need to instruct for a few years to get to 1500 hours) suddenly you are stuck in a two to three year gap in supply while demand stays constant.
Regionals will still need pilots but with none to fill the spots at that crappy quality of life...then shazam! They will have no choice but to raise pay and benefits to attract pilots against going to another carrier.
People who make the argument that "at one time you needed 1500 hours get hired anyway so this will have no impact on pay" are incorrect. High time requirements in the past have always occurred at times when regionals were hiring the least with pilots everywhere with 250 hours lining at the door. In other words when supply was high and demand was low. once attition and growth start occurring again, which will invariably happen over the long term future, suddenly supply is there with people who've been instructing for the last few years, but once you hire them away from all the instruction jobs (who are being replaced with new cfis who need to instruct for a few years to get to 1500 hours) suddenly you are stuck in a two to three year gap in supply while demand stays constant.
Regionals will still need pilots but with none to fill the spots at that crappy quality of life...then shazam! They will have no choice but to raise pay and benefits to attract pilots against going to another carrier.
As to many of the posts concerning pay and QOL the last few years there have many factors affecting this industry and a knee jerk reaction will have repurcutions for all of us eventially. I've see low time pilots at the regionals that are great pilots. A bad expample is not more a statement that all low time pilots are incompetent than my expample is that a high time pilot is incompetent.
07-23-2010, 12:03 PM
#115
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2010
Posts: 453
Not trying to flame your post, but it's not just "the regionals" who hire low time pilots. I can name a dozen people I know who got hired on with a major with a CMEL and less than 1,500 hours.
Too many people are seeing this rule as affecting safety by increasing he hour requirement and those increase hours makin better pilots at regionals. Although i think they will be a little better, I don't believe this is the real intention of the senators nor the family since both pilots had plenty of time and experience when it happened. The legislators and the family mostly show disgust and concern with the way pilots are compensated and treated at the regional level. How do you change that without mandating minimum wages??? Simply create a barrier to entry to boost the demand side of the equation, which will make regionals have to provide a better QOL to attract pilots. This increased quality of life will also yield safer pilots because the main gist of this whole thing was that they were fatigued from having to commute because they couldn't afford to live in base. how do you make regional pilots safer? Create a barrier to entry that will yield better pilots, end up paying them more, and make them less fatigued all the time. All of this equals happier and safer pilots.
People who make the argument that "at one time you needed 1500 hours get hired anyway so this will have no impact on pay" are incorrect. High time requirements in the past have always occurred at times when regionals were hiring the least with pilots everywhere with 250 hours lining at the door. In other words when supply was high and demand was low. once attition and growth start occurring again, which will invariably happen over the long term future, suddenly supply is there with people who've been instructing for the last few years, but once you hire them away from all the instruction jobs (who are being replaced with new cfis who need to instruct for a few years to get to 1500 hours) suddenly you are stuck in a two to three year gap in supply while demand stays constant.
Regionals will still need pilots but with none to fill the spots at that crappy quality of life...then shazam! They will have no choice but to raise pay and benefits to attract pilots against going to another carrier.
People who make the argument that "at one time you needed 1500 hours get hired anyway so this will have no impact on pay" are incorrect. High time requirements in the past have always occurred at times when regionals were hiring the least with pilots everywhere with 250 hours lining at the door. In other words when supply was high and demand was low. once attition and growth start occurring again, which will invariably happen over the long term future, suddenly supply is there with people who've been instructing for the last few years, but once you hire them away from all the instruction jobs (who are being replaced with new cfis who need to instruct for a few years to get to 1500 hours) suddenly you are stuck in a two to three year gap in supply while demand stays constant.
Regionals will still need pilots but with none to fill the spots at that crappy quality of life...then shazam! They will have no choice but to raise pay and benefits to attract pilots against going to another carrier.
07-23-2010, 04:19 PM
#116
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: Capt
Posts: 3,215
Hours do make the INDIVIDUAL safer.
You, at 300 hours, may be better than your 5000 hour captain:
BUT
YOU will be better at 5000 hours than 300, and do you want to know whay your 5000 hour captain was like at 300????
It is a good idea. ATP as a min would be even better.
It WILL reduce the supply of pilots.
It WILL increase compensation, overall.
cliff
LFW
You, at 300 hours, may be better than your 5000 hour captain:
BUT
YOU will be better at 5000 hours than 300, and do you want to know whay your 5000 hour captain was like at 300????
It is a good idea. ATP as a min would be even better.
It WILL reduce the supply of pilots.
It WILL increase compensation, overall.
cliff
LFW
07-23-2010, 06:05 PM
#117
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Position: Self employed
Posts: 3,048
I'm not convinced that there will be significant salary changes. There will be exemptions added years down the road.
Plus, major "legacy" airlines are free to hire 1500 hour CFI's also. That will happen before pay goes up.
07-23-2010, 06:30 PM
#118
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2009
Position: Missionary
Posts: 309
Hours do make the INDIVIDUAL safer.
You, at 300 hours, may be better than your 5000 hour captain:
BUT
YOU will be better at 5000 hours than 300, and do you want to know whay your 5000 hour captain was like at 300????
It is a good idea. ATP as a min would be even better.
It WILL reduce the supply of pilots.
It WILL increase compensation, overall.
cliff
LFW
You, at 300 hours, may be better than your 5000 hour captain:
BUT
YOU will be better at 5000 hours than 300, and do you want to know whay your 5000 hour captain was like at 300????
It is a good idea. ATP as a min would be even better.
It WILL reduce the supply of pilots.
It WILL increase compensation, overall.
cliff
LFW
Right now and for the next few years, there are plenty of experienced guys to hire. When that well dries up, everyone will have forgotten about this, and they'll lobby to amend the rule.
07-23-2010, 06:36 PM
#119
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Not sure anymore
Posts: 95
OK, here it is, no holding back...
NO 300, 400, 500, etc. SUPER PILOT HAS ANY BUSINESS ATTEMPTING TO FLY AROUND PAYING PAX ON A COMPLICATED JET AC WHILE THE CPT DOES EVERYTHING IN HIS/HER POWER TO PREVENT MR SUPERPILOT FROM TURNING THE JET INTO A SMOLDERING PILE OF SCRAP. I DONT CARE IF YOU DO 1500 HOURS IN A BANNER TOW, ITS STILL EXPERIENCE!!! YOU NEED TO SCARE THE HECK OUT OF YOURSELF A FEW TIMES BY YOURSELF BEFORE YOU GIVE IT A GO WITH 50 LIVES AT STAKE!
Rant over....thank you.
NO 300, 400, 500, etc. SUPER PILOT HAS ANY BUSINESS ATTEMPTING TO FLY AROUND PAYING PAX ON A COMPLICATED JET AC WHILE THE CPT DOES EVERYTHING IN HIS/HER POWER TO PREVENT MR SUPERPILOT FROM TURNING THE JET INTO A SMOLDERING PILE OF SCRAP. I DONT CARE IF YOU DO 1500 HOURS IN A BANNER TOW, ITS STILL EXPERIENCE!!! YOU NEED TO SCARE THE HECK OUT OF YOURSELF A FEW TIMES BY YOURSELF BEFORE YOU GIVE IT A GO WITH 50 LIVES AT STAKE!
Rant over....thank you.
Those are my feelings exactly!
07-24-2010, 03:59 AM
#120
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Reclined
Posts: 2,168
Planes have not been "falling out of the sky" because with the stagnation of hiring at majors, the seniority level of regional Captains is higher than it has ever been.... it was those senior Captains that kept the planes from falling out of the air as you call it... not the highly experienced 250 hour new hire. Apparently you either weren't paying attention a few years ago when all the horror stories were flying across the message boards, or you aren't a Captain and haven't flown with those kids.
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