captainchipotle

This whole thing is unfortunate. It seems big daddy D had it out for more than just Freedom.

Is the flowthrough agreement done with? What about Comair, are they next on the chopping block? From what I've heard the two don't like each other very well.

With Delta's upcoming need for pilots (a lot of them), it seems counterproductive to cancel a flowthrough, but I'm just a peeon.

Good luck to everyone.

RockyBoy

If you look at what we just did with MESA it might not be too baffling. Sell them to Trans States and Pinnacle for $83 million, let them run them like crap and not meet performance metrics or let them get tired of losing money doing the flying at risk, cancel the contract, take the jets back since we own them, give the jets to someone else who will pay you some money for the opportunity to fly for Delta, repeat process. Delta is out nothing and makes $83 million dollars.

They may not cancel the flow initially but what happens to the flow when Trans States shuts down the flying because they are losing money doing it on an at risk basis? If they cease to exist, then the flow ceases to exist with it. If they are going to fly all the Compass and Mesaba jets at risk on seperate certificates like SkyWest does with ASA, then I give them about 18 months until they throw in the towel and give the jets back. Jets then go to RAH or SKYW and there is no flow left and they don't have to reduce the 76 seaters because the companies technically went out of business. I think the reason SkyWest wasn't in on this deal is they don't want to fly jets on an at risk basis. It will be interesting to see what kind of contracts Trans States and Pinnacle will have with Delta for this flying, but if it is at risk flying with performance measures to meet, I'm not sure how long it will last.

The Duke

So who ultimately decides whether flow continues or not from CPZ to Delta?

Does the sale of CPZ necessitate that no flow-ups will occur?

If the new owner of CPZ determines whether flow-ups will occur, would that make sense financially to continue w/ a flow-thru agreement? Fairly junior workforce (low cost) and flow-ups would drive up training costs for the new owner.

The flow-thru might not be the ONLY reason for the sale, but it must have been a contributing factor. The timing is just too good for Delta to believe that it was a coincidence. This was likely in the works for some time as flow-thru agreements generally don't make good financial sense.

Didn't Continental have a flow-thru agreement w/ Express years back? I can remember some comments in Bethune's book that were highly critical of flow-thru agreements; that they were not good for business. Based on this history of flow-thrus falling apart, should we be surprised by the sale of CPZ and Mesaba?

JoeMerchant

I'm amazed how many pilots keep falling for the old "flowthrough" sales job. Fool me once.....

CommutR4Life

Very true, I fell for it once. Smoke and mirrors....

buzzpat

Just like "no furlough" clauses at the majors which result in guys being furloughed any way, and then the flying flows DOWN to the regionals and more guys are hired. Works both ways, unfortunately.

RockyBoy

Yes we had one at Continental Express and Gordon Bethune hated it. It took him about 5 years to get rid of it. Lots of similarities if you look at how the COEX flow-thru was dismantled and what is now happening at Compass. It is no surprise to me that CPS was sold. It will also be no surprise to see them try to get out of honoring the flow-thru. However, they have some fairly clear language on what happens to it if CPS is sold. The biggest negative is that the number of 76-seat jets will be reduced UNLESS DALPA along with the new CPS MEC agrees to let them out of that clause. If they don't get out of it then all the guys on property now should get to flow to Delta. Any newhires or Trans States guys are probably not going to benefit from the flow-thru.

Fishfreighter

Mainline managers HATE flowthrough. Always have always will. Why? Because they and they ALONE want to determine who gets hired.

buzzpat

Just like regional managers who refuse to interview furloughed mainline guys. Again, works both ways.

KC10 FATboy

I guess when the management said at the CVG meeting, "we're getting out of the regional business", they weren't kidding.

Whoa Joe, you're back !!!