tsquare

Pete Carrol did say he was "shocked"... just sayin'

flynwmn

So Sec 1.40.e Exception 2 states:

In the event the flow provisions of NWA LOA 2006-10 and LOA 2006-14 cease to be available, either at the feeder carrier affiliate referenced in such LOAs or at another carrier, the number of jet aircraft configured with 71-76 passenger seats specified in Section 1 B.40.d will revert to 85.

Assuming they want to terminate the flow, I wonder how they'll get around this one. Hmmmm................

Bringing back the ARJ

NuGuy

Dunno.

One ROC style screw up, and you're on the hook for a lot of cash. Considering the memos I've seen recently, they are VERY serious about DOT3.

I could see it if they are worried about being attached to some kind a liability tail from a Colgan type accident, but I'm sorta doubting it. If some smart lawyer has figured out how to penetrate the corporate veil for a tort suit, they could do it just as easily with a contract carrier. Besides, Comair is still WO.

Flow or no flow, I do NOT see them giving up the additional 76 seaters. You can bet that a full court press on the langauge of the LOAs to keep that number where it is, and that's going to require some kind of flow in place.

The only non-intraweb information regarding the DC-9s I've heard is that the -40s will stay for another 2 quarters, and even at that, we're talking about only 7 airplanes. The -30s are being parked as planned. That doesn't cover a whole lot of shift in the regional flying.

It could just be they sold the ticket and the ASA. If DAL keeps the title to the airplanes, they can lease them back to the operator. Then they charge a chunk in the ASA for ground ops, "support" and other crap. Add in the slice they get for the ticket, and DAL gets paid coming and going. That was typical NWA modus when it came to the regionals.

Nu

Carl Spackler

I hope this doesn't come off as unsympathetic to your guys and their current plight, but the Compass thing was extremely strange. It wasn't like most jobs where you interview for the company, get hired by the company, then work to make that company the best. Most of the Compass guys interviewed at Compass for the express purpose of joining NWA.

I think that was a very strange disconnect in the normal employment process. I think everyone had to know there was considerable risk in the decision to join NWA via a "triple bank shot into the corner pocket" by interviewing at Compass. It still might work out, but there was always a lot of risk in this most unusual process.

Carl

acl65pilot

Well you found the section of the PWA that I was referencing. It now comes down to the intent of the wording in our PWA. (Downward or all flow) It is not defined and I would take it to say up and down flow. So, if CPS states that they will not flow their pilots it does become unavailable.

acl65pilot

Well my think that thinks it smells or indicates something else because of the fire sale price.

NuGuy

Heyas ACL,

The airlines are worth what they are worth. I can't imagine that mama DAL was giving them away for no reason at all. Sometimes there are pending items that we don't know about.

If I own a Cessna that is nominally worth $100k, and all of a sudden, I decide to sell it to someone for $70k, you can bet there is something wrong, one way or another. So someone buys it for $70k, and the next week, POOF, something external happens, like no more 100LL. Now that $70k airplane is just worth it's weight in aluminum. (this, by the way, is currently going on if you follow GA news at all). Makes the guy who sold it look like a genius, and the guy who bought it look like a sucker.

It could be that DAL plans on making it's money back on aircraft leases. It could be that DAL so highly regards its hiring process that it's willing to sacrifice 60+ 76 seaters just to be rid of the flow.

It could also be they have read the tea leaves and decided that the regional industry is going to be so bad, that a 100 million dollar airline is only worth 20.

Time will tell.

Nu

johnso29

No. That plane isn't coming back. And a replacement for it doesn't cut it. The clause was specifically for the Avro's, & they are gone.

johnso29

I actually posted that. He seems to have messed up the quote function.

I think that the language is clear. It doesn't matter how it becomes unavailable. If it's unavailable, the number decreases to 85. The defined flow agreement is for flow UP & DOWN. If part if it disappears, it becomes unavailable.

alfaromeo

There is another factor. Delta wants to get of 50 seat RJ's faster than the contracts allow. A recently departed executive, his name rhymes with "Bitewurst", signed a bunch of really bad agreements with RJ carriers. These current transactions might allow Delta to early terminate some of the 50 seat jets and in exchange give the buyers 76 seaters as a consolation prize. Since we are at the limit for 76 seaters, they can't be new purchases, they have to come from existing aircraft. I have no idea if this played into these transactions, but it wouldn't surprise me.