F-90 Driver

Is there something wrong with not wanting to be a Delta pilot?

Eric Stratton

Regional airlines have benefited (grown) 10 fold but where have the regional pilots benefited 10 fold? It sure isn't in wages and career earnings! If you believe that the regional pilots goal was to be a regional pilot rather than work for a major then yes, they have benefited 10 fold. Somehow I don't believe that most regional pilots went to school to work for the regionals. How many dream to fly a Canadair vs a Boeing?

I'm glad that you brought up BK wages. Let's look at compass. NWA pilots authorised compass in their BK contract. The compass contract is even worse than NWA's BK contract! That is pretty sad when pilots sign BK contracts (that most seem to hate) and then sign off on a worse one for a newly formed wholey owned. What do they really care though, they aren't gonna work under it, only that regional will. But hey I'm sure compass pilots benefited 10 fold on that one! I mean what could be better than work for compass and then have to start over when you go to NWA (now delta). Benefits all around for starting over at 1st year pay and longevity.

The argument is still fulling intact but waiting for your rebuttal on how regional pilots have benefited 10 fold by outsourcing.

johnso29

It's really not that hard to understand. BK judges allowed ridiculous amounts of outsourcing, & as a result thousands of RJ CA jobs opened up. Pilots instantly passed up years of flight instructing, pipeline patrol, flying checks, etc. Many stepping stones were flat out taken out of the process.

I myself benefited from this RJ explosion by holding RJ CA in less then 2 years. Many friends are the same. The fact is that stagnation has occured due to the economy and the inefficiency of the 50 seater. You can blame wages on Mainline all you want, but they're not the ones that voted in wages at ExpressJet, Colgan, Comair, Mesa, RAH, etc. Their own pilot groups voted for those rates. Compass was a unique situation which I wasn't a part of.

Check Essential

Not at all.
If you can get more money and a better lifestyle elsewhere.

For airline pilots, Delta has to be one of the top choices right now.
There are certainly others. (although not many if you're being honest)

BUT, the whole airline pilot profession ain't what it used to be.
The job is still more fun than most, but the compensation has been decimated.
If I was young and ambitious, I'd seriously consider another line of work.

80ktsClamp

Yes. How could anyone in their right mind not want to be part of the order of the widget?




Of course not... you're in a thread about Delta though so what did you think you were going to be reading about? There's a few southwest threads around... You should ask them the same thing.

TenYearsGone

I have heard a certain amount of Compass pilots have received their "flow" paperwork.

Congrats.

TYG

cfitstew

True, and on their behalf thanks!

johnso29

Yes, congrats & welcome!

Eric Stratton

I completely agree it really isn't that hard to understand. The airlines used scope in their bargaining for their gains.

If judges allowed the ridiculous amounts of outsourcing that is because the pilots signed off on it. If there is a judge out there that forced outsourcing without the pilots approval please let me know because I have not heard of a single BK judge taking flying from the majors.

I'm not arguing that CA positions didn't open up. There have always been shorter and longer upgrades at the regionals. It's cyclical and this one held onto the shorter upgrade time because of the 50 seaters. I remember people upgrading in less than a year prior to the 50 seaters and I remember people upgrading in over 5 years. It all depends on your timing. Those stepping stones that you speak of were only removed for a brief period of time and I'm betting they've been reinserted again. Very short term gain unless you got lucky and had the right timing like yourself.

I'm not making the argument that Mainline is responsible for regional pay but they aren't blameless either. The point was that they were able to get deeper cuts by having compass do the flying rather than if mainline did it under their Bk contract. Even if they gave Compass the same contract they would get savings out of the outsourcing by having the compass pilots start over at 1st year pay and longevity when/if they flowed up. It's bigger cuts that they put on future/other pilots and not themselves.

acl65pilot

Just a point, the BK judges did not throw out the NWA or DAL contracts. LOA's were TAed and voted on in both filings. The pilots then voted on these changes under the threat of solvency and a judge throwing the contracts out. No action was taken, just the threat of it.