JungleBus

*sigh* Don't be fatuous, Jeffrey.

The Comair guys significantly raised the bar for regional pilots. The contract they struck to get led directly to the signing of excellent contracts at Horizon and Air Wisconsin, in the same way that the NWA guys striking in 98 helped secure C2K at DL. Pattern bargaining, of course, plus providing management everywhere with a sobering look at the potential consequences if they don't play ball.

In the end, you're right, the strike and their increased costs made Comair a goat in Delta's eyes and they've been thrashed accordingly ever since, their flying farmed out elsewhere to lowest bidders. It's simply too easy to shift contracted flying around under current scope clauses for regional pilots to significantly raise the bar and not be beat down. My original response to you wasn't stating that the strike was ultimately good for Comair pilots, but it was something that we as trade unionists should recognize as a positive step for our profession rather than denigrate.

JungleBus

And for what it's worth, I'm not a big fan of the RJDC, JD Lawson, or the despicable CMR policy of making DL furloughees resign their DL seniority. I just feel the more unity there is across airlines and across regional-major lines, the stronger ALPA will be.

DAL4EVER

The difference between the groups is that the local meetings I've been to have involved some healthy debate between LM and the guys who disagree with him. From my former buddies at CMR, no one stood up at a meeting JC attended and attacked his stance. The silence by the majority generally means support for the leader's decisions. That's okay as everyone is free to make their own actions, but with every action comes the consequence of said action.

Bucking Bar

I saw pilots standing up to JC Lawson and saying it was a bad idea, even Comair pilots.

I told him it was a bad idea standing in the hall underneath ATL gate C23 when he came to town.

Bucking Bar

OK, but anyone who read my posts on the CPZ deal surely realize this went down just exactly as predicted. One reason I've been sitting back and watching is simply because this transaction wasn't "news." Actually amusing to see it done before many could even say, what tha ... .

Threats on the horizon are:

• Compass will fight their scope restrictions and / or unilateral flow
• Compass may join Teamsters
• Compass, or one of the other larger outsourced labor groups may threaten ALPA's exclusivity on Delta bargaining
• Pilots will continue to question ALPA's role. Out of frustration will call for decertification. Decertification would be disastrous for Delta pilots as such a move would fall right into the hands of those who want our seat at the table

There has been no change what so ever in the strategic direction our negotiations (or management's word "discussions") have taken. We still facilitated a sale of Delta flying. Delta is still, slowly, getting out of the business of operating an airline.

It is difficult to say if there has been any changes in our Chairman's actual positions. I suspected his promotion of flow through agreements was political, but many disagreed and believe his sincerity on the subject. His talking points have been updated and are more respectful of those with scope concerns.

Our current scope isn't as strong as it could be, because it does not make a lot of objective sense. The regional guys will eventually leverage these weaknesses and ally with management if we get forced into concessionary bargaining. Holes, as I see them:

• Manufacturers, the FAA and Airlines see aircraft as Types. The E175 is a family of jets capable of 122 seats / 4,200 miles. In effect, we have outsourced the 100 seat Type. By not recapturing it, we risk losing it. (I think we'll hold on around the current limits, but it will be tough fight because it just isn't a very clear objective line)
• The 76 seat limit is an economic compromise built around bankruptcy data. If we increase our pay rates, pressure will increase to operate these aircraft to their full capacities. Worse if we are in concessionary bargaining and the Company just really needs to maximize revenue.
• We still have a very fragmented group of pilots doing the bottom half of Delta flying. As the heat gets turned up, they will look for ways to protect their jobs entering into concessionary bargaining which further upsets the 76 seat compromise.

ALPA has an excellent opportunity to prove itself in these upcoming "discussions." All the parties are at the table to talk scope. Lets hope for the best. We have some very bright people representing us. If all of our scope wrangling had an effect, we shall see.

acl65pilot

You are back Bar, where have you been?

Bucking Bar

PM sent. Mostly got burned out on APC. Figured I would skip the "I told you so's" and wait until there was some actual new negotiations to try to weigh in on.

The sale of Compass was yesterday's news the minute the representational vote was tallied. Now management wants to negotiate scope. Those "discussions" are the actual news, since they presage future activity.

Ferd149

Bar,

Welcome back. I was hoping to see what you thought about all this. Good stuff, let me reread #277 above a few more times and take it all in.

You're still the best informed guy on regional issues I've read. Thanks for taking time to post.

Ferd

brakechatter

[HTML]IF the Compass guys get shellacked and fight it, then he, UGBSM and Brake Chatter will have a whole new group to enjoy beating down. Save your torches and pitchforks boys for the next group of uppidty regional pilots./HTML]

Do you really want to have this conversation?

acl65pilot

I will have to agree.

The only thing bringing up all of this stuff that happened eight plus years ago does is reopen very deep wounds. It is divisive and helps no one.

CPS guys learn from the past. There may be opportunities here, but presupposing the debate is not a good primer.