shadyops

Why did DALPA and DAL allow the outsourcing of more than 50 percent of Delta flying if they are so concerned about the DAL brand?

Also, I was not referring to DAL. I was referring to ALPA using its capital for military pilots over dues paying ALPA members and how that is wrong.

CVG767A

When LM does something we disagree with, you'll hear plenty of dissent in the ranks. When JCL wrote that letter, we heard......nothing. Absent any other evidence, that silence equals approval, IMO.

I try to not include the Comair guys who were hired there after that period, FWIW--

Ad Lib

"we heard nothing"

How would you hear? Jumpseats? Web board threads? Trick them into thinking you are Wilson Polling? There were plenty of pilots who were surprised by JC's missive and plenty who thought it was a bad idea.

We might talk to each other, but how often would we (you and I) engage another airline's jumpseater with a "hey our MEC Chair stinks" type conversation? Most of us keep jump seat chatter very polite.

You also assume the average Comair guy was even aware of the letter. Certainly awareness was much higher on the Delta side than the Comair side.

I'm just curious how do you know these things and objectively quantify them?

Ad Lib

Any examples?

RoughLandings

I pressed the CPZ president face to face on this issue the day of the sale in the MSP crew room. What I got was the following:

1) The 60-day window to re-negotiate the flow agreement was required by DAL as part of the purchase agreement. Failure to accept this term was a deal breaker.

2) The terms were described as such: CPZ, CP-ALPA, DAL, and D-ALPA are to sit down to re-negotiate the terms of the flow which will be limited to 60 days. If acceptable terms are agreed upon, then the flow (in its new form) will remain in place. If terms are not agreed upon after 60 days, CPZ managment (per the purchase agreement) must exercise the clause in the PWA that allows them to unilaterally cancel the flow UP portion of the flow agreement.

3) The CPZ president talks a lot without saying much of use to anyone.

After a few days of thought, I am of the feeling that there is something else is going on here. The pieces do not add up and I can't shake the feeling that this is step one of many.

But I've been known to be wrong a few times before.

forgot to bid

Scope and Compass were big. It was all over the L&G thread, a website was created called Combine Compass and then the LEC elections happened and there was a lot of anti-LM rancor leading up to those. Not to mention LOA's coming out of nowhere signed sealed and delivered and people bieng upset. Not to mention the whole CPZ MEC split issue. And then there were complaints about communication with DALPA. The silence from the MEC and LM was replaced with fears the MEC wasn't protecting only a portion of the pilot group.

Then things improved in the communication side significantly with a better flow of the quality of information which was greatly appreciated especially as we went into the HND, CPZ MEC split and slot swap. We started to get more insight into the MEC and a lot of things began to make more sense as time and company events unfolded. Although much of the communication has had to be limited for good reason. Operating in silence isn't a bad thing.

Eventually the bayonets were put down and repalced by calmer waters and general silliness on the L&G-Delta thread.

Every indication is you're not wrong. There is a lot going on and the more you read the right people on this forum, watch company activity and read and listen to what the company is saying the more we - as a group - realize you're 100% right, this seems to be the first of many steps.

UGBSM

Ohhh no, no, no...

Ad Lib you subscribe to the typical faulty premise of RJDC spinmiesters. ASA and CMR flew - DELTA - code, under strict conditions set forth in the Delta Pilots PWA. CMR code did not "become" Delta code just because of wholly owned subsidiary status.

You are not a Delta pilot just because you fly Delta code under subsidiary contract. Wholly owned or not. I've heard this all before, 10 years ago from Dan Ford and others. He had this fantasy that CMR was really Delta now because of "operational integration", "wholly owned", "flying Delta code", blah, blah, blah. He felt this obligated ALPA to merge seniority lists, and yes, they wanted a DOH list. RJDC and fruitless lawsuits followed. Haberman and the lawyers got rich and Comair still is what it is today.

It was all very tiring and pointless then, and I'm getting weary just thinking about it now. Sorry I even turned this smarmy rock over again.

imasaluki

Wow, you must have a really big one.

UGBSM

Yes, I see now. So the CMR strike probably was a good thing for him. It no doubt funneled more flying his way.

UGBSM

You probably had to be there to recognize the audacity of the CMR MEC leadership at the time. Im sure it looks petty to outsiders now, over a decade later.