Delta Sells Compass and Mesaba
07-05-2010, 12:28 AM
#241
Da Hudge
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: Poodle Whisperer
Posts: 17,473
Jay, I think you're confused on users. I know your intentions are well...
I personally know the real Sam... and you are a bit off on your assumptions and screen names. He is on our side- we personally sat together trying to get Compass and their jets stapled to the mainline list, along with whatever else we could get in scope restoration. Suggest taking it around and making another pass....
07-05-2010, 04:27 AM
#242
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Still in one
Posts: 784
You make a very good point. I do think they care about the brand, which is why they've been trying to make the product as good as it can be.
However, I think they want to wash their hands of any responsibility. In other words, if a Colgan type of accident happened again, DAL can claim that it was not DAL aircraft or pilots ... it was a contractor. Therefore, no liability. Hence, the sale of Mesaba and Compass. Soon you'll seen Comair go away once the lawsuits are settled with the Lexington accident.
However, I think they want to wash their hands of any responsibility. In other words, if a Colgan type of accident happened again, DAL can claim that it was not DAL aircraft or pilots ... it was a contractor. Therefore, no liability. Hence, the sale of Mesaba and Compass. Soon you'll seen Comair go away once the lawsuits are settled with the Lexington accident.
No doubt the rewritten ASA's and ability to terminate contracts for performance and whipsaw against the next lowest bidder are where the gold mine is on this, but for liability purposes who maintains operational control will be settled in court when the attorneys start following the money trail.
As others have mentioned I have a hard time connecting the dots on the premium product, preferred airline bit. I guess like so much in advertising it's just a slogan that if repeated enough becomes part of accepted culture never mind the reality.
07-05-2010, 04:56 AM
#243
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 410
Before the conspiracy theories go too far here, just remember that management merges companies and labor merges seniority lists after the merger is announced. There never was a merger announced between DAL and either ASA or CMR so there was never ANY proposals about SLI methodologies by either side. I know that somehow the ASA and CMR MEC's got it into their heads that they could force a merger by forcing the beginning of ALPA merger policy but they were wrong and the whole episode was a little bit of a joke. One could note that they never filed a petition for the two of them to be declared a single transportation system, maybe Ad Lib could enlighten us as to why that most logical step was never taken.
One more note, not one section of any major airline was rejected by any judge. Noting that scope was not rejected is quite misleading. If you negotiate changes, the rejection doesn't happen. Trying to assume that if no negotiations took place then no rejection would have occurred is just silly. Remember that every labor group that took it to a judge had their contracts rejected. 100%.
Trying to rewrite history to match your future assumptions doesn't make it true. All of this bunk about protecting military pilots and all the rest is just bunk. We didn't merge our lists because the companies weren't merged. It is as simple as that.
One more note, not one section of any major airline was rejected by any judge. Noting that scope was not rejected is quite misleading. If you negotiate changes, the rejection doesn't happen. Trying to assume that if no negotiations took place then no rejection would have occurred is just silly. Remember that every labor group that took it to a judge had their contracts rejected. 100%.
Trying to rewrite history to match your future assumptions doesn't make it true. All of this bunk about protecting military pilots and all the rest is just bunk. We didn't merge our lists because the companies weren't merged. It is as simple as that.
+1.
The same song and dance repeated over and over does not make the story any more true.
I noticed that this guy neglected to mention that one of the initial damages sought by the RJDC was relief from section 1 of the Delta PWA. Yep, the altruistic ones
Also not mentioned that little part that was in ALPA merger policy was the fact that ALPA would then have to use all available resources to encourage management to honor the combined list. The sue happy pilots at Comair and ASA would have been monitoring that one pretty closely. We could have kissed all of the contractual gains of C2K goodbye as we would have to **** away all of our negotiating capital in order to "compel". Kind of like trying to compel ice to stop melting in the desert. Management did not want a list merger or a company merger. In fact, none of the 3 airline pilots contracts required a merger. Neither Comair nor ASA fit the required criteria in the Delta CBA to trigger an automatic list merger.
In fact, "undesirable flying" was also defined in the Comair CBA at the time.
Unbelievably, there was flying that Comair was willing to outsource.
Management didn't want a merger of lists. The fictional "operational integration" open and shut case was one based on a napkin and bottled water logo. I mean, we have the same napkins on the plane, so there must be operational integration, right?
We can go back and forth for three years again, and their assertions will continue to fail the sniff test. Time has proven pretty much all of D.Fs theories wrong with regard to scope. In fact, time has proven the true motives of the RJDC.
07-05-2010, 05:14 AM
#244
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2009
Posts: 917
+1.
The same song and dance repeated over and over does not make the story any more true.
I noticed that this guy neglected to mention that one of the initial damages sought by the RJDC was relief from section 1 of the Delta PWA. Yep, the altruistic ones
Also not mentioned that little part that was in ALPA merger policy was the fact that ALPA would then have to use all available resources to encourage management to honor the combined list. The sue happy pilots at Comair and ASA would have been monitoring that one pretty closely. We could have kissed all of the contractual gains of C2K goodbye as we would have to **** away all of our negotiating capital in order to "compel". Kind of like trying to compel ice to stop melting in the desert. Management did not want a list merger or a company merger. In fact, none of the 3 airline pilots contracts required a merger. Neither Comair nor ASA fit the required criteria in the Delta CBA to trigger an automatic list merger.
In fact, "undesirable flying" was also defined in the Comair CBA at the time.
Unbelievably, there was flying that Comair was willing to outsource.
Management didn't want a merger of lists. The fictional "operational integration" open and shut case was one based on a napkin and bottled water logo. I mean, we have the same napkins on the plane, so there must be operational integration, right?
We can go back and forth for three years again, and their assertions will continue to fail the sniff test. Time has proven pretty much all of D.Fs theories wrong with regard to scope. In fact, time has proven the true motives of the RJDC.
The same song and dance repeated over and over does not make the story any more true.
I noticed that this guy neglected to mention that one of the initial damages sought by the RJDC was relief from section 1 of the Delta PWA. Yep, the altruistic ones
Also not mentioned that little part that was in ALPA merger policy was the fact that ALPA would then have to use all available resources to encourage management to honor the combined list. The sue happy pilots at Comair and ASA would have been monitoring that one pretty closely. We could have kissed all of the contractual gains of C2K goodbye as we would have to **** away all of our negotiating capital in order to "compel". Kind of like trying to compel ice to stop melting in the desert. Management did not want a list merger or a company merger. In fact, none of the 3 airline pilots contracts required a merger. Neither Comair nor ASA fit the required criteria in the Delta CBA to trigger an automatic list merger.
In fact, "undesirable flying" was also defined in the Comair CBA at the time.
Unbelievably, there was flying that Comair was willing to outsource.
Management didn't want a merger of lists. The fictional "operational integration" open and shut case was one based on a napkin and bottled water logo. I mean, we have the same napkins on the plane, so there must be operational integration, right?
We can go back and forth for three years again, and their assertions will continue to fail the sniff test. Time has proven pretty much all of D.Fs theories wrong with regard to scope. In fact, time has proven the true motives of the RJDC.
Hey chatter see ya at the end of the month
07-05-2010, 06:09 AM
#246
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 737
Posts: 590
So if the flow up program is cancelled just go fill out an application (like most of us had to) and try to get on with DAL/ any other carrier, the normal way. The cancellation of a flow through program does not mean that they will not hire you.....you just have to interview for it.
07-05-2010, 08:23 AM
#247
Works Every Weekend
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: 737 ATL
Posts: 3,506
It doesn't seem possible, but it looks like they didn't read the DALPA contract before they signed these deals to sell Compass and Mesaba.
They had no idea our contract called for the parking of 68 RJs.
Now they're calling for urgent meetings and hoping Moak will bail them out.
07-05-2010, 08:33 AM
#248
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2010
Posts: 852
07-05-2010, 08:58 AM
#249
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 86
That's why I said in another thread that management may have screwed up.
It doesn't seem possible, but it looks like they didn't read the DALPA contract before they signed these deals to sell Compass and Mesaba.
They had no idea our contract called for the parking of 68 RJs.
Now they're calling for urgent meetings and hoping Moak will bail them out.
It doesn't seem possible, but it looks like they didn't read the DALPA contract before they signed these deals to sell Compass and Mesaba.
They had no idea our contract called for the parking of 68 RJs.
Now they're calling for urgent meetings and hoping Moak will bail them out.
07-05-2010, 02:46 PM
#250
No longer cares
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 767er Captain
Posts: 12,109
Oh good grief.. here we go again... What is your definition of bailing the company out? If there is a quid pro quo that (in your opinion) "bails the company out", has LM been complicit-a company stooge-operating without the pilot's best interest in mind? From the obvious vitriol you have towards the man, I would conclude, yes. If on the other hand, this would somehow result in (as an example) of DAL turning off the hiring pipeline, yet LM holds whatever line you have drawn in your mind, is that a better option? Really?
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