Delta Sells Compass and Mesaba
07-03-2010, 08:24 PM
#201
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Posts: 176
As previously stated by others, Comair pilots choosing CMR as a career was mentioned by JC in his infamous letter stating that CMR is a career airline and any DAL furloughee could resign from Delta to be a CMR pilot. And how many kicks to the sack did you take compared to DAL guys 2001-2005?
This is a classic case of what goes around, comes around. Perhaps the CMR pilots should have been more vocal when their illustrious leader drew his line in the sand. Funny, it didn't affect him, but it affects a whole lot of the CMR list now.
This is a classic case of what goes around, comes around. Perhaps the CMR pilots should have been more vocal when their illustrious leader drew his line in the sand. Funny, it didn't affect him, but it affects a whole lot of the CMR list now.
07-04-2010, 06:25 AM
#202
FlySmarterNotHarder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: fifi flyer
Posts: 576
Delta pilot animosity towards JC Lawson's CMR MEC and the RJDC may not be well understood by former NWA pilots, but the sentiments remain to this day. To what extent it affects Delta hiring of CMR pilots, I do not know. Probably their ill conceived strike has a bigger affect on that. But either one is not going to be favorable for them. Too bad. (said with sarcasm)
07-04-2010, 06:52 AM
#203
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: B737 CA
Posts: 1,518
You really wanna judge the Comair guys for striking to improve regional pay and QOL? You mainline guys are the ones always biatching that regional guys shouldn't work for so little (after you gave up scope with virtually no conditions to prevent whipsaw). So criticize JD Lawson's thuggishness in dealing with the DAL MEC if you will, but the Comair strike was a giant step in the right direction that sadly has not been duplicated since and therefore led to their present distress.
07-04-2010, 07:37 AM
#204
FlySmarterNotHarder
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: fifi flyer
Posts: 576
"...Comair strike was a giant step in the right direction".
Uh huh. How's that working out for ya?
The successful negotiations before the strike were a step in the right direction. The strike itself yielded virtually no contract improvement, and did nothing but satisfy JC's bloated ego and shoot the rest of the pilot group in the foot. But that's old news. I'm sure it has nothing to do with why nobody wants to buy CMR today.
Uh huh. How's that working out for ya?
The successful negotiations before the strike were a step in the right direction. The strike itself yielded virtually no contract improvement, and did nothing but satisfy JC's bloated ego and shoot the rest of the pilot group in the foot. But that's old news. I'm sure it has nothing to do with why nobody wants to buy CMR today.
07-04-2010, 08:04 AM
#206
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2010
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 900
When they first showed up on the scene, they were a TP replacement and nothing more. They never imagined that MD-88, DC-9 and 737 routes would be replaced with 50 seaters. Just like NWA was sure that no DC-9 routes would be lost with the E175 at Compass. Now, if it's a short haul that used to be flown by a DC-9, MD-88 or similar air frame, it's pretty much always an RJ.
07-04-2010, 08:23 AM
#207
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: 330 FO
Posts: 584
You really wanna judge the Comair guys for striking to improve regional pay and QOL? You mainline guys are the ones always biatching that regional guys shouldn't work for so little (after you gave up scope with virtually no conditions to prevent whipsaw). So criticize JD Lawson's thuggishness in dealing with the DAL MEC if you will, but the Comair strike was a giant step in the right direction that sadly has not been duplicated since and therefore led to their present distress.
Our heartburn comes from the RJDC seniority grab attempt and the big F.U. we received WRT preferential interviews and hiring when we were furloughed, and the fact that although Lawson was the ring leader, the pilot group seemed to be fine with it.
Lastly, the big scope concessions were given in bankruptcy with a gun to our head. Believe me, it's those very concessions that kept myself and others out nearly 5 years, so we're very familiar with how they came about. Scope wasn't simply given away for the hell of it.
07-04-2010, 09:15 AM
#208
Moderator
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: DAL 330
Posts: 7,017
So when you say "mainline" you are probably correct if speaking about the wishes of DALPA, but I bet a lot of FO's would have liked to fly the RJ as their initial Captain seat, keeping the flying in-house. Maybe there is a lesson in here somewhere about assuming a monolithic school of thought based on what the senior guys think. FWIW I think the current DALPA is doing a good job (current NC make-up for example) of giving weight to what the junior guys want/think.
And secondly, if what you say is correct, the short answer would be because DALPA has realized what a major screw-up its original philosophy on RJs has been.
Scoop
07-04-2010, 09:20 AM
#209
seeing the large hubs...
Joined APC: Oct 2006
Position: 73N A
Posts: 3,762
So when you say "mainline" you are probably correct if speaking about the wishes of DALPA, but I bet a lot of FO's would have liked to fly the RJ as their initial Captain seat, keeping the flying in-house. Maybe there is a lesson in here somewhere about assuming a monolithic school of thought based on what the senior guys think. FWIW I think the current DALPA is doing a good job (current NC make-up for example) of giving weight to what the junior guys want/think.
I wasn't here at the time, but I could a situation where the company said, "well, you can fly these tiny RJs for low pay, or you can give us scope relief for them and we'll increase the top end pay (and thus retirement)".
It's possible that the cost analysis in 2000-2001 made it financially worthwhile to all the Delta pilots (from top to bottom of the senority list) to allow the RJs to be outsourced vs flying them in house.
07-04-2010, 10:52 AM
#210
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,913
Good point - also, back in 2000-2001 when the RJs were really growing, there were two things that we don't have now: very high top-end pay scales and a defined benefit retirement plan based somehow on the top-end pay.
I wasn't here at the time, but I could a situation where the company said, "well, you can fly these tiny RJs for low pay, or you can give us scope relief for them and we'll increase the top end pay (and thus retirement)".
It's possible that the cost analysis in 2000-2001 made it financially worthwhile to all the Delta pilots (from top to bottom of the senority list) to allow the RJs to be outsourced vs flying them in house.
I wasn't here at the time, but I could a situation where the company said, "well, you can fly these tiny RJs for low pay, or you can give us scope relief for them and we'll increase the top end pay (and thus retirement)".
It's possible that the cost analysis in 2000-2001 made it financially worthwhile to all the Delta pilots (from top to bottom of the senority list) to allow the RJs to be outsourced vs flying them in house.
The above situation is a premium example. Sell your soul for quick bucks now, and you will soon find yourself on the wrong end of a fool's bargain.
Nu
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